Aaron Wallace interview {Aug 2026}

Ringkasan

Aaron Wallace is a long standing referee throughout the regional scene in Ireland, also @bravemmaf referee went viral with his handling of two fighters in an after fight brawl He has worked for and continues to work for many promotions abroad Sparta Royal, PFL he has 4 UFC…

Transkrip (youtube_captions)

Okay, so it's my absolute pleasure. I want to say it's been about three or four years since I last talked to this man. He's got more handsome as time's gone on. He's got more famous as time has gone on. Um, he's obviously big in BJJ as we all know him from around the scene. Uh, George Ref. A massive presence within the scene. And then also he's outside the scene. He's recently been on the UFC Sparta Royale in Austria, which I think is a fantastic promotion. And I was at the the Brace Slap as well. And And you've picked up a lot of work over the past two or three years. It seems to have really ramped up. Um, [snorts] the hard work seems to have been paying off. So, I want to thank you very much for joining me. How are you? And And how does it feel to have this many international gigs? Cuz I I obviously you've had Brave Brave for quite a long time. You've got UFC now working backstage, Sparta Royale. And And how do you feel when these people are asking you to come do these? Like, do you know these people are watching you? Or do you just get a phone call and say, "Look, we've got a thing going on. Do you want to come over and ref it?" How does it feel to have so many outside regions saying >> The um It's usually just a a message or a DM through you. Sometimes you just get a call. This close we'd like to have you here. We'd like to have you there. Um, the Sparta Royale one came about even [clears throat] though it's not MMA, the promotion the same guys that run the promotion um they co-promoted us in in Vienna with Brave 2024, I think it was. Um, and off the back of that I worked that. Um, I refereed at that event. And then off the back of that they contacted me to see if I would like to referee their events in Austria. So, I'm back over there in a couple of weeks. Um, I did one for them last year. And then I'm back over 29th of this month. Um, Sparta Royale 8. And then I'm back over in Vienna 21st of November and then I've Bratislava with him in December as well. So it's pretty it's a real it's from the referee. That's the one if anybody hasn't seen it it's um in an arena and they've hay bales in the center hyper boxing rules 4 oz gloves and just have a have a tear up. >> [clears throat] >> All standard and obviously it's hyper boxing so there's no no take downs no nets a fist fight but it's um entertainment wise it's from and they put on a real good um production. I mean you don't no expense spared in terms of the lights camera action side of things either. Um and it's a great laugh bunch of lads to work with. >> Yeah it's I've seen the clips and like that you think something that has hay bales and two lads just in the middle middle of somewhere you think it would be low budget but the budget on I think that's what makes it so appealing as well because it is so well lit it is the like it's obviously AK cameras and stuff like this and I remember when you were going over >> The thing that even a bit with the walk in is um I mean we done it in the arena and um Vienna last October and they literally have floor to ceiling LED screens built in on yet it's brilliantly really really good and the atmosphere and say that I was actually surprised the atmosphere was really really good and it's simply fact that everybody understands violence it's a wee bit different in terms of MMA because I mean you get the sort of once it like a stand and bang when they're like it's taken to the ground and they don't appreciate the grappling sort of side of it. You get people booing after it's went to the ground for 10 seconds well in sport other there is nothing on the ground. It is It's just stand and bang, you know. Um >> [snorts] >> As I say, there's I'll see men and women in there. It's almost like a They treat it like a night a night out, you know. That's the the main the main bit of it. Everybody's there. They got the the VIP section and that there. Um They do, you know, obviously their own tables. Um but it's full on you know, you go in and there's wine and messes and poppers and all on the tables. There's waiter service. Uh and I don't mean just probably it's like full-blown shirts, ties, wee [ __ ] apron and all, silver cutlery. You can order meals and stuff like that there near your table. It's um for the VIP bit and then obviously up in the the stand in the arena. It's just your normal your normal tiered seating. >> That sounds pretty good. I might go to that. Um to get someone to away a full suit >> Yeah, 21st of November. >> That that that might be one I would go to, but in terms of the the I like you said there's no takedowns and stuff obviously cuz it's just striking. I would presume with a huge majority end up with knockouts. I'm assuming they would that most fights finish via knockout or do we not go to decision? I don't know. You've been there, so you'd be able to tell me more. >> Last of them we did but I was there was the 12 fights in the card and nine of them finished via knockout. >> Yeah, that's mental. >> One of the ones that went the distance I referee was a title fight. It was five two-minute rounds. And that was the only reason it went the distance was cuz it was two seriously mental hard men. Um that was a Russian against a Chechen. And uh I >> Yeah, no. >> pride and stuff like that. Wouldn't wouldn't let anybody get put down in that one, so >> No, yeah, exactly. The pride, you mentioned something there about it being a day out and stuff. Have you noticed compared to the UK and Ireland that in Eastern Europe and places like that that uh [snorts] combat sport is viewed differently and cuz Will Fleury said this to me about uh octagon that it's like a family day out. Like whereas here it just seems to be people who are into the sport, a lot of people go get drunk Joe and have like have the crack but over there it's like a family sort of a feel to events. Do you do you have you noticed that from abroad or was that just his kind of takeaway from maybe a couple of events he's been at? >> The um the amount of people who go to events and I mean I've done two shows there between um Ljubljana with Brave in Slovenia at the Sportina and then obviously in Belgrade in Serbia there with UFC last weekend. Um the amount of fans that go to local events um and even some of the like referees I work with out there um and I've obviously seen some of their shows they referee basically local shows like um FNC and stuff like that in Croatia. They're selling out arenas. >> Yeah. >> Like there were like I say there some people are FNC literally they'll all know who I'm talking about but if I said to somebody like oh we're just going to a cage conflict or we're going to be there earlier and like that or did you see that FNC show the weekend? They wouldn't have a clue what you're talking about. But they're doing [clears throat] 20,000 in an arena. >> Yeah, it's it's it's it's mental. >> Eastern Europe, central even central and Eastern I mean you see the crowds that Octagon get. And they're doing 60,000 stadiums. KSW have done 60,000 fair enough usually put Mariusz Pudzianowski on it and it sells out but in KSW here years and done massive arena shows in stadiums. Um But yeah, I don't I don't know. It's different in the UK and Ireland. They don't seem to Yes, you have like the ones that are really into the MMA and friends and family going to going to shows, but you don't get the the amount of people going. I mean, I know that fair enough in the O2 Arena, but the Belgrade Arena, they they sold that out in 22 minutes. >> That's 20,000 tickets. >> 22 minutes, that's what they had. >> Sold out at a time >> At the same time At the same time, FNC did a show in the Belgrade Arena a few months back. They sold that out as well. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it wasn't It wasn't just sold out because it was the UFC. Yes, it sold out really quick, but it wasn't just sold out because it was the UFC. FNC sold that arena a couple of months back. They're doing the Zagreb Arena in Croatia on the 12th of September. Massive arena. >> Yeah. >> That will probably sell out as well. And it's not as if they've they're using like bringing in big names and ex-UFC stars and all the rest to sell tickets. They're not. It's just literally how fanatical they are over in Central and Eastern Europe. I don't know why it doesn't really transfer. I mean, Cage Warriors are a massive promotion, but they're not doing the 3Arena. >> Yeah. >> They're not doing the O2 in London. They're doing the O2 as in the wee bit at the side of it, you know, like a few thousand. They're not doing They're not selling out big arenas. Whenever they were in Eastern Europe, they probably would be. >> Yeah, it's cuz they do like We've seen We've seen the list of fights that are going to be coming up for the latest Cage Warriors. There's some cracking fights. Like, when you look at the fights, you should be saying you're like, they should be selling out these, but I think it's a different culture. Um I think in Eastern Europe, they're considered athletes, whereas you know, obviously here uh yourself and Danny and Liam and obviously down south, John Cavanagh, and I've been trying to get this sport recognized. I think there's a uh a bad opinion of the sport from people outside the sport, whereas in Eastern Europe, they they seem to I think they look at them as if they're like football players and stuff as well. There's no other sort of way. Whereas here, they look at us today, only do that combat sports. I don't know. >> Or that's what you can say in the same way, I think it's sport in general. I mean, you look at the amount of big basketball in Eastern Europe. >> Yeah. >> Massive. Sell out arenas to watch basketball. The flares going off in the stands the same way they did in Belgrade last week. Which you know, Dan, I wasn't a fan of, but I thought it was brilliant. >> [clears throat and laughter] >> Ahem. Yes, I think that's the only thing that really sells here is hurling and GAA. Well, down south anyways, hurling GAA will sell out Croke Park every week, no matter who's playing. But they seem to be the only sport >> It's fanatical though. >> Yes. >> In terms of that's your your club, your county, your, you know, that way it's a full that as I say, Eastern Europe, they do basketball, football, MMA. It seems to be if there's they get so invested in it and everybody everybody goes. >> Yeah, yeah. And then obviously GAA and and hurling have been around forever. And these are the sports where you mentioned KSW, I believe they had like KSW is very underrated, I think, because it's not really an English-speaking promotion. It's most mostly Polish and others, but they had the highest record, I believe, for the highest attendance a couple of years ago. And I think Octagon might have beaten them, but it's good that these sports are competing with each other in that terms. And then it brings the fandom up, cuz I think I'd love to go to an Octagon, because it looks like a spectacle. Have you ever been to an octagon show yourself? >> No. No, I've just seen them on TV. I know they're doing Stuttgart um Potentially there's a same day as he's always an outside maybe September sort of thing. Um potentially in October and that's a that's a football stadium. I'm really sure they're doing them Stuttgart. Yes. I'll probably sell it as well. >> And Prague again I think in December because they do a show kind of after Christmas between Chris- Christmas and New Year's. That week they usually have a show on I think they've got one in Prague. But um in terms of yourself from the UFC um how many shows have you worked for them? And what was it like to get the call or message to go work for the UFC because obviously UFC is the pinnacle where all fighters want to get to. Anyone that's in ref, judging, media, everyone would love to go to UFC and you got that call. How did that come about if you don't mind me asking? >> I've done the four. Um the far last November was the first. Uh back to um in the gym Abu Dhabi and then Belgrade. Um and it was uh fellow Lee Doyle. Um he runs the commission. So obviously UFC the amount of people that work for them is unbelievable. First show I did for them I was like really taken back. They're like just confirm and everybody has a job and everybody knows what they're doing and it's all Like for example there's a fighter asked me in Belgrade last week. They were the third fight in the main card. This coach come over and says ask me what time did I think it was going to be on at. No, just hope he's starting warming up and stuff like that. I was like I'll find out what time the main card starting and then you can sort of judge it from there. Yeah, but I asked what time and it's not shortly after 7:00 or 10:00. 7:00 or 8:00. 7:00 or 8:00. Yeah, it's not Oh, you know, the first walk shortly after 7:00. >> It's 7:08. >> First fight was First fight was walking at 7:08. It's That's how you like it's military precision. And it's [ __ ] off from obviously from a production side of things, they have to be at that. Um >> [clears throat] >> in terms of, you know, obviously it's going live on Paramount and whatever else it's Everyone has to be, but it's that's how that's how you get that level of precision. It's um it's on. First fight walk at 7:08. >> Like even 7:05, 7:10, 7:08. >> 7:08, yep. And it's not it's never like a it's never oh, we're hoping to have it starting at this time or that time. It's it's going 7:08. >> Yeah, [clears throat] no. I I I I can imagine because like that obviously they have they'd have duties to fill for arenas and like you said for TV especially as well. So, they have to make sure cuz you ever notice when people get knocked out early, you see the same footage sometimes over and over again cuz they need to need to space it out. So, how did you find out when you done your first show? What was that like walking into the back and going, "Wow, like I'm at the UFC." Like did like did did it feel surreal? Did it feel overwhelming or did you feel like I've worked to get here? >> [snorts] >> Or all of the above? Yeah. >> Yeah, all of the above. It was like, you know, not even just involved in the MMA in the thing but actually officiating That's been 13 years I've been doing it now. You know, from like refereeing and judging commission wise. Um So, it wasn't as if it was like, you know, you always like as you say as far whether you're a fighter, a referee, whatever you It's far to get the obviously the UFC is sort of the pinnacle of the sport. Um I still obviously have ambitions to referee in it. Whether that happens or not, don't just keep doing what I'm doing and hopefully it does someday. But um No, it was a bit like I don't know, like a rabbit in the headlights. When you're when you're walking when you're walking around or you're having to go and speak to fighters and corner men and you know, you're listening to production and they're doing countdowns and you get the white light, you know, when you're walking the fighter out and making sure you don't fall going into the cage and you know, stuff like stuff like that there. >> Yeah, I I can imagine like that cuz I'd say like walking out, you're usually going and it depends some fighters walk at a slow pace, some fighters sprint to the cage, some fighters kind of will take the time go around to the crowd. Do you then just have to just ad hoc your pace and kind of where you stay depending on the fighter? Do you know what the fighter's entrance if they're going to be fast, if they're going to be slow or do you just find out when they rock up and they just go, "Right, I'm sprinting or I'm taking my time." >> Someone like um actually on the buyers in Abu Dhabi. Now, he's a flyweight, so he's quick anyway, but he decided that he would jump. So, then I had to run after him to the cage, which didn't help me a bit. Um compared to last weekend, Aleksandar Rakić, cuz obviously he was fighting at home. You know, waving the Serbian flag, sort of facing the end atmosphere, brilliant. He walked in and he got to a certain point and then he stopped. You know, just to soak it all in, so you just have to ad hoc it as you're as you're going. Some might run, some might walk really slow, some just act as if it's another day. The only difference is sometimes where the walkways can be really, really narrow and you get the fans hanging over the side and you have to sort of put your hand up so in case they want to the finger and the finger of iron and like that. Sturbridge wasn't that bad. Sturbridge was quite wide and against we didn't have to worry about that. Plus you have the security walking with you as well. So you'd always be on like the fighter's left shoulder but then security is there and they're walking with their hands up trying to team up a wee bit so just to say everybody knows what they're they're doing. It's It's actually like a wee all in seeing when you get there and it um Obviously I'd say in this state they use commissioners mode the athletic commissions but it's all the same. Like if you notice when fighters are walking out it's usually the same security at every event. So everybody knows what they're knows what they're doing like. >> Yeah, no you you do see that. It's the same people over and over again. I actually had someone that's I when I put up to view the picture of the fighter with you in the background they were like, I thought that was Aaron but I wasn't sure. And I was like, no that's 100% >> You you get people that do that. And then other ones will be like, oh. [ __ ] sake mate. We get talking you know what I mean just mate. >> Yeah, always there. >> You're not there for a gig. Yeah, you're there to work, you know, you're not there to like walk about and go >> [sighs] >> Yeah. >> Put a big smile on your face. So we get talking you know, you're not meant to smile or you know, stand and look at the big screens to see if you can see yourself on it. Take 50, you know, it's a You're there to do a job so that's why anybody always says [ __ ] you but don't smile with you. That's wild. >> Yeah, it's >> I'd probably walk away from that. >> [laughter] >> I think as well it might take the the intimidation factor away if you're walking around like Joe Joe's smiling whereas I I kind of get it because like I said it's that it's that work but I think you can get a sneaky smile every once in a while because and pinch yourself and realize that where you are where you are but you probably do all that before you go in but you've got Brit slap as well which is something that was just announced in the last day or two. How did that come about? I'm assuming that's a take from Power Slap. >> Well, actually [snorts] I done Power Slap in Serbia last week. First time I've ever worked with Power Slap event. First time they'd ever been in Europe. They've been in I think they did one in Sweden. It was the only time they've been outside the states. So, this was the first time they'd done one in Europe. So, it was a a wee bit like what the [ __ ] going on here? Um No one turned up like from Mexico and walked in and watched them warm up and there's a few characters in there like there's obviously not like athletes as you can see. You know what I mean? It's Yeah. They're not in 12-week training camps. >> Yeah. >> You know, a lot of them's not like cutting weight or anything like that. They're just there to get slapped in the face, but I do have to actually, in a weird way, admire how they do it because it's to stand there and let somebody slap you. >> No one is coming. >> No, like when someone turn away or, you know, it goes completely against the way your brain should be wired. You know, so even though people go and put their mind into somebody slapping them. They probably are a wee bit because that goes completely against human nature. You have to stand there and let somebody slap you in the face without moving, without fighting back, without, you know, blocking it or anything else. You just have to stand there and take it. So, how the Brit Slap event came about then was there was a fellow I Louis, I think it was Louis or Robin. He does Brit Slap heavy. It's something that he was I'd say fighting or fighting. He slapped him last week um in Serbia. Um and the fellow that owns Brit Slap was there and he spoke to one of the other commissioners, Brad, that works with the UFC. Um Brad passed on the details. He messaged me. And then they say about the they're able to get a shot. Um I says, "Yes." Says, "Third of May, sir." Sweet. Full men Thursday. Talked it over and I said, "I'll be in Liverpool on the 3rd of October." >> Wow. That's That's another thing to to add to your But obviously you're going to know that for anyone that doesn't know what power slap is, like he kind of just explained that you have to stand there. You have to hold with one hand, I think you have something to hold onto. And you have to let someone hit you full force. And like you said, to know that's coming and not >> There's a a paddle like a button. >> Okay. >> So if you're getting slapped, you'll hold it behind your You hold it behind your back. You'll There's a podium in the front. And between the two I I guess you could say in between the two slappers. Especially It's always fun, especially if it's two um especially if it's two females. You know, there's the two female slappers, you know, it's I don't know. Slap ladies or something. I don't know. But they um So there's a podium in the center. So the referee there, well, the person who's receiving the slap they'll stand on their mark. They have their They will behind their back. They'll stand there, brace. So they have to be They're not allowed to touch the chin. But they They are allowed to lift their traps and brace. So they stand then The slapper who's giving the slap, they'll take their mark. So where they have to They have to be square, shoulder width apart. And so they'll walk and then they'll get asked to measure. So they'll stand and measure against the stick overhandly against the person they're slapping's face to measure where they are. That slap's slightly different. That slap you have to go on the third slap. And then the third swing, sorry. One, two, and then slap. Power slap, you're allowed to decide one, two, or three. So, you say the referee will say what you saw him out there, they'll go right hand on two. So, the referee's all made up, they'll call it out, right hand on two. They'll say the person who's receiving it right hand on two, they'll nod. And then they'll go one and then slap them second. >> I couldn't imagine standing there. >> If it doesn't That's what I'm saying, it goes completely against like human nature how your brain works. You have to stand there and take a full force slap in the face without You're allowed to brace as in like but you can't flinch or turn away or tuck your chin. >> Yeah. And there is fouls in it, by the way. >> Yes, that's what I was going to ask you. And what would be considered fouls? >> So, you club them, which is if you strike any other area that that isn't really the cheeks. So, if you overstretch and you pass the ear or you come under and pass the throat or if he cuts with this part it has to be the palm of the hand, the fingers have to land at the same time. >> Yeah. >> [snorts] >> So, that would be determined clubbing. You have also like a foot foul where if you pivot up too much and lift your foot if they have [clears throat] to remain remain planted. And then obviously on the other side you have the fouls for um like flinching or turning away. >> Yeah, cuz I I can see with the feet planted because if people are moving and they can get bit more of leverage on it, obviously it's going to make it >> You're allowed a slight a slight heel lift, but you're not allowed to like pivot right up. Right up onto it. It has to basically just be a rotation of the trunk. >> Yeah, as opposed to a lifting of the feet, it's kind of yes. Yeah, I get but I I I don't think it's something I could do with standing there cuz you know when the slap's coming, you know it's not going to be [ __ ] easy either. It's not going to be a tap. It's going to be like I You've seen people get knocked out from one slap and have you Did you when you were there Were you amazed by >> under when it was when it was on? >> [laughter] >> Uh it's it's it's I don't know. It's not something that I don't don't think. At least in other sports you have the ability to defend yourself and get away. So, look, I don't think I'd like to be knocked out, but it is fun It is fun and it is fun for the spectators as well. And Dana's obviously very high on it and there must be a lot >> I know a few I know a few in the crowd. Um few ones that I knew that flew over from the UFC. And then when they found out it was a partial knockout one, they actually went a wee bit earlier and went to the partial knockout as well. And they were messaging me saying, "This is [ __ ] brilliant." So, as a as a night out and they in terms of at the end where that's classified as a spectator sport for want of a better word. Probably isn't a bad night out, you know what I mean? >> It's a joy that is. It's simple. There's not many rules to it and it's easy to follow. Do you understand what I mean? So, someone's out having a few drinks and >> you say the word the same as sport or royal with it being all stand up? Yeah. You know, you can go like women can go to it, you know, fellas can go to it. Just you don't need any knowledge of grappling or BJJ. Everybody understands violence. You know what I mean? So, that's where it ends up being everybody's going to [ __ ] me as a brilliant night out. And also sales. They're doing another different They're doing partial knockout in Abu Dhabi in October. Um the night before the UFC. So, don't know whether I'm working it yet or not. I'll find out soon. Obviously, the powers before that UFC. So, I'll find out after that there probably whether I need it for Abu Dhabi or not. >> Hey, hopefully hopefully we will see you there. You are quite busy with Obviously, you've got the We've got the reason seeing here that's buzzing at the minute. But I'm going to get on to just one two questions about yourself. Like when you started reffing and judging, did you envision that you would be out here like obviously there's the commission up north. You do you you ref a lot of the shows within the country, a huge percentage of them. You've got a lot like said to UFC, you've worked up PFL, you've got Sparta Royale, you've got now Blitz Lab. Did you imagine that you'd be this busy and have a full-time career out of becoming a referee when you started? What did you say it was 12 years ago? >> 13, 2013. And I'll be in the UK. I don't know how busy it gets, I'll probably never be full-time. That's reserved for Mark Goddard and Herb Dean. They're the only two full-time ones. Um but no, I'm busy. I'm busy enough at the minute of um Sport of on the 28th of August of Brave in Croatia the weekend after that the 5th of September, which I'm really looking forward to um even though I'm I'm missing UFC in Boston. Uh but the Brave show in Pola they're putting a cage in the center of the Colosseum. >> Wow. >> So yeah, it's a a really really um it's a Roman Colosseum, not as big as the one in Rome obviously, but just a small but it's been like nearly a magically sort of preserved. Um they're um putting the cage in the center of the Roman Colosseum. So that should be yeah, that should be quite a night. Um after that I might actually go and watch Cage Warriors in Dublin. I don't remember the last time I actually went and watched. And I might as well have an MMA show for the set there and watch. Um so that 3rd of October, Pausha Lab in Liverpool. He's conflict 10th of October. I'm sure it's um Wrath of the Smooth the 19th of September. >> So I'll have it the week before Cage Warriors. Um and then not too sure whether I'll say yet if Abu Dhabi in October or not. Then Vienna for Sport Royale 20 1st of November. Ljubljana for Brave CF 28th of November. Junior MMA MMA League in Belfast, 4th of December. Bratislava, Friday the 11th for Sport Royale, Sunday the 13th of Warrior Challenge. >> [snorts] >> I'm busy I'm busy enough until then Christmas. Yeah, you know one of the reasons that I I was still fighting whenever I had refereed my first show. But that was basically just my way I wanted to stay involved in the sport without getting punched in the face. Quite simply. So, how do you stay involved? You either coach or go around the officiating side of things and I decided to go with the officiating side of things. So, that's where that started off from. First fighter I refereed was in the White Collar Boxing Hall. >> Yeah, um before I just say >> on the XE. >> Just for just for like to say people who want to get involved. Just say if they wanted to become a ref. What are the channels that you have to go through now? What would you recommend where you do they get the courses and and stuff like that? Just if there's someone out there that would like to become a ref or a judge, where what what channels do they have to go down through here? >> Um judging's a wee bit an easier path to get into than the the refereeing side of things. Um refereeing obviously is a wee bit more I'm not going to say important, but you're more in front and center in terms of the action, you know, that way. Um judging has a clear and refereeing as you know, anything can happen in a fight. Um whereas judging, there's a clear set of criteria to follow and providing you understand the judging criteria, technically you can judge. Um, how you end up judging anybody that's started judging with the commission, um, has been I'll always say they need to come and shadow a minimum of three or four events. Um, and that's taking the time their own time, come to the show, which is unpaid. Um, I don't say I the judges get paid, but if you're coming on the shadow, you're there all you should say one of the judges. You have your scorecard, you judge the fights, you score them, and then at the end of it, I am look over, you know, and obviously ask the other judges sitting beside them how they how they did, get a bit of feedback, speak to them, and then you would do that and then obviously progress from there in the actual judging of events. Um, I'd say the refereeing's a wee bit it's a wee bit more tricky. Um, they get into the refereeing simply for the fact that you have fighter safety at the >> Yeah. >> at the end of, you know, but you do have things like the, um, the junior MMA league. Obviously Henry and Adam have it, phenomenal them. Um, so that's a similar thing for the fighters. It's a a stepping stone where they're, you know, you don't have to be, uh, on a world a world, uh, like sort of title level, you know, the same cuz there's it's a more controlled environment. There's less, you know, there's more rules, there's not as there's no head shots or anything like that. So, you're not really dealing with you're not going to be dealing with knockouts or TKOs or anything like that. There it's it's mainly just submissions and looking after looking after the kids' safety that way. So, it's a it does give you a bit we can get a wee bit more experience that way without being under the bright lights, so to speak, of you know, having a loud crowd on a Saturday night and they have an estimate being on pay-per-view type thing and loads loads of eyes on the views. >> Yeah, that I think that's how it should work. That was should in any it should work from from the bottom up and especially with Rexford like you said there's so much fighter safety and stuff at at at risk there that you need someone like you said and being unpaid as well. I done media for 5 years before I start getting paid for any work. If you love the work you should get you should do it for the love of it not the thing. I know obviously gets a point where you do need to get paid but um I think that should if people want to get in those things shouldn't be an issue. I'm going to let you go but I've got three questions before I let you go. Number one, the best knockout you've been in the cage for. Number two, the best fight you've been in the cage for. And number three, the best of overall event or feel that you've had at a show. >> [snorts] >> Best of all the ones weren't in the cage. >> Okay. >> Gianni D'Angelo at Spode Royale. That's the one. If you ever get a chance to look at that. He was Gianni D'Angelo has to get put down hard. Like a minute before and he got up and he was wobbling. He just about made the eight count to get back. You know, he was all over the place but he managed to stay in it. And then he landed a huge right hook. And I honestly thought he'd count his opponent. He he just planted on the thing. The doctor jumped over the hay and over the thing. It was kind of and he was out for a good 5 minutes. And because he was the defending champion they gave him a chance you know to speak on the mic before and after. And they asked him you know first round was pretty even. You probably won the first round. Gianni came out and took the beating the second round and then obviously the fight finished in the third round. How do you think the fight went? And he just apologized and said I can't remember any of the fight. >> Wow. He knocked [ __ ] his backers he thanked his coaches and his balance for coming and his public out there and he just goes out and you know I'll will be back but um you know just thank you and then they I don't know where he was. Yeah, no I I think Blaine Blaine knocked out I've ever seen in person. >> Um the best fight you've been in the cage or or arena? >> Oh, best fight. I would still back Blaine McGill against Maski. >> Yeah. >> Because they out-dogged beat the hell of each other for three rounds. >> [laughter] >> I mean I don't know. Blaine McGill had a mega concrete block but you know what I mean? But the two of them just went at it for three rounds. That's probably the probably the best fight I've ever been in that I can remember off the top of my head. The most entertaining. >> So we've got your your favorite knockout which I really want to see. So when we're off this if you can if you know what event that was at I'd go Google it and I'd go have a look because I'm very I'm very I'm very intrigued by it and obviously with new fans you I have someone that lives in Austria. She competed in Ireland this season and be doing it and I was saying to her if you can get to that event if we can get you credentials get to that event. So cuz she's she said she's about an hour away from from where it is. So that might be something I look into but So we've got and then we've got Maski playing McGill like I said the two dogs like it's very rare someone can out-dog or or get to the level of dog as Blaine McGill cuz they're as dogged as he comes at then came in Maski just like that was a sensational fight because I said usually if Blaine if it isn't going his way technically he can he he dogs it out and he gets there and he gets over the line and it was amazing to see someone that could keep up with that dogginess and then they get it over the line. It was a something we don't really see that much against Blaine. But your event your event what what's your favorite event so far? >> Probably have to say in my my first UFC. Just for being the UFC and obviously I've said the aspirations always been to get a good one of refereeing. But even being you know working for the company and stuff like that um being in and around it seeing how it all goes and obviously that pinnacle sort of of the sport um and also quite good in against me and I had a chance to um in and around like to Goddard, Herb Dean, Mike Beltran, Jason Herzog, Dan Miragliotta, and Mitchell. >> [snorts] >> And you see them I'd be in the same situation from them to do their their talks with the fighters. >> [clears throat] >> Cuz it's not done the way we would do it over here in amateur show where you call everybody and you do a little meeting for everybody with the same they do them individually with each fighter or each fighter they're saying to um they'll go in and have a a one-to-one chat with them and their the fighter and their coach. Um just seeing how you know they interact with fighters and speak to them you know how they get their point across and it is very very it's obviously it's good for me in terms of a a refereeing perspective to pick up a few things and watch how they conduct themselves and um everyone [laughter] else and how they do effectively do their job in the in the way so it's um it's good that way um and obviously the first event was a wee bit surreal in the fact that and obviously seeing I was um um looking after Ian Garry's corner um and it was really really surreal in the fact that I've obviously seen the plan was back when he was fighting in his amateur to and stuff like that there. And to the point of signing a contract eventually in the UFC in Qatar of all places. We better hurry up. Especially when I walk into a gym and that means what the [ __ ] are you doing here? You've got hints of And then obviously we're doing stuff like signing them off hand wraps and whatever you get them these hand wraps and then obviously you both go on and before he's fighting in the the red or the blue to his whatever corner. And then you're signing them off. So I called him over and he come over and you know I expect the gloves you get. I think he was happy enough. I give the pen out to sign them off and he was signing them off and he was like he goes uh look how far we've come. So that was a wee bit like blood stain we first come do your thing and then that was obviously a big win over Bellator of that nature. I said I would be well for him that is obviously my first one so >> That's a nice moment though. That's like that's a very nice moment because like you said you're there >> But I say that's obviously the the final operation to get to >> Yeah cuz so so you've you've you've you've done all the steps. There's only one or two more steps ready for you to to get to that referee and how crazy would it be if you were to to ref an Ian Garry fight in the near future. Especially if he picks up the the championship which is which is a big ask against Islam Makhachev but I don't think it's completely out of reach. I think too many people Whatever people think about Ian Garry personally is regardless. I think I think when you're in the cage he is elite. Like and there is that chance there for Khabib has said they haven't fought someone as as long and rangy as and distance a good distance as he >> made for that. It's he can keep him at range and at distance for five rounds. That's the That's the point of, you know, guys are a lovely job. He's a great team. Um his distance control is very, very good. What it's It's whether you can stop him being caught in the distance and getting his hands on him. For five rounds or not is another I mean, the only way I would see Ian winning would be a decision and that would be five rounds of not making a mistake. >> Yes. >> On the inside, movement, uh range and is he just point fighting for five five rounds? Um whether he can do it or not, I don't know. Um but that's the realistically, that would be the only way I could see him cuz Ian's very accurate with his He hasn't really shown any of his much in terms of like no great power and his one punch no great power. So, it would be more I'd say accumulation over adding up the points over five rounds in my opinion. What that tends for, I do not know, but um that would be the only way I could see him pulling it off. Doesn't mean he can't do it, but that would be the if you were doing the keys to victory that they like to do, that would be the sort of Well, I don't think he can get in there. Now, don't get me wrong, Ian's take down defense against Belal is very, very good, but Islam and the ability to hold him down both >> Yeah, the Dagestanis are are a different breed, and like you said, but like what you said was completely correct because Ian has only shown us that that's like we've seen him in Cage Warriors and do that, but when obviously you go up to UFC, it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a huge step up. And he hasn't shown us the knockout power, but he has shown us really good accuracy, takedown defense, and these things were like I said, all it takes is he can be winning that for five like for 24 minutes and if Islam takes him down in the last minute like you have to stay right there till the end but if Islam takes him down in the last minute and and it could be game over after all that hard work. So it's just there's a lot on the line. I think he he can potentially do it but obviously say in favor of Islam. But going forward if the like we we talked about people that uh is where would you find courses and stuff like that for that like do you run the course? I know Mark Goddard runs a course. I know sometimes I'm a down south runs a course. Do you run the course? >> It's phenomenal. >> [clears throat] >> That would be an older He doesn't have that many regular sort of dates but you are >> [clears throat] >> that special. Um it's fine that level up that way, you know, in terms of your judging and your refereeing like those. Um but our course was really really it was an eye opener. >> [clears throat] >> Even an eye opener for me and I've been officiating for 13 years and I learned so much from it. It really was. It really was that good. That was three full days, Saturday and Sunday. But um it's a real real good course to go on. >> Yeah, no, a lot of people have said that. I think I was speaking to Danny course well he spoke about uh about courses stuff. But is there going to be courses recently for people within within the country? Do do you run the course? I remember you did have a course at one point. >> We have me and Danny have spoke about it. Whether we can get that up and running just as a sort of more of a wouldn't be obviously anywhere near the same level as Mark Goddard but potentially on an entry level type um thing. I don't know. I would like to but as I say it's trying to find a Sorry. Trying to find the time to work around it. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Hopefully we can get it done with Yeah. I think we'll be get we'll get to say because of a Viking even put across on a half of what Mark put across on his cruise. It would be beneficial for local level, you know, shows that people are starting to move up move up that way to the end of the street. You're doing another legend. >> [clears throat] >> They will have to be down hardly shorter level that you're working with there and you're getting streamed all over the world to the judge now because they've reached they've reached that level of I'm going to say it's pretty He's been on me consistency, yeah. I'm doing that at the very, very, the very, very top level. >> Yeah, no, it is It's great to see your career like that cuz obviously it's I [clears throat] would see you at shows and then I've seen you on my TV and and then like the next week I could see you then at Cage Conflict and then you're at the UFC and then you're here and then you're and it's just absolutely amazing seeing and obviously with a ref is the best seat in the house really. Um but obviously there is there is stresses and stuff that come not stress Well, stress and stuff that come with that because you have to make sure you're on point all the time but I've really enjoyed watching your career because it's not only the fighters doing well, it's yourself doing well. I was speaking to Phil Campbell, Paul Brown. You've got Derek Hickey who's out and about doing bits and pieces with the PFL and stuff. So there is routes for people within the sport that aren't necessarily fighters to get to the likes of the UFC, PFLs and stuff like that without being a fighter and you're an example Phil, Paul, Derek Hickey and all these other people have shown that there is a way for if you're not a fighter that you can make it. Like I said, it's not a full-time gig but if you love what you do like like I said, you there's other things that you can do to make money as well in and around that but um I want to thank you so much for your time. Is there anything you want to say before you go? >> Not really mate. Um Josh, thank you though. Anybody that's sort of helps with things, obviously the misses. I have to thank her as she gets out of the leash and get from the dog when I'm away. You're my boss at my day job. He's phenomenal. He's actually he's getting his teeth into it now where I would always have somebody to contact with me. Can you go here and such and such? I've been like, well, hold on there, check. And he's got his his way. Just say yes, we'll sort it after. So, you know, and then obviously from the Irish boys to Danni and Liam especially. They helped me loads, but all the other boys like Arnold and Ross, Andy and Bala, any other motions Jared and Carl as well, you know. So, obviously Kenny the responsibility to look after the referee or shows. My go away in Austria. Doyle and all the rest of them that you've seen. If it's anybody, Mark Dallas for And sure he's fair to say maybe he's seen shows them. Burning his ear. They're trying to pick up tips and I don't have to remember the slow down because he always says he can't make me hear. So, >> I I think it's an Irish thing whether it's southern or northern. Everyone says, "You Irish people speak too fast. You need to slow down." I say, "But we can understand each other." >> [laughter] >> So, I that's what I need to be conscious Yeah, I think I need to be conscious. >> I'm looking forward to say it's rough, but I'm trying to do home shows and then Keys Warriors will be the last one that I'm looking forward to just for the end. Sitting and enjoying the fights. >> Yeah. Better than me that one. >> [clears throat] >> Still loading. That's my call. >> Yes, man, there's there's actually man, [snorts] there's so many like good fights. You've got Kenny versus Alan Simon. And like I've heard of a few fights in the works and I was like Andy Stevenson must be loving this cuz he loves that. But I think as well, when you fought, the Irish had to fight the Irish to become the cream of the crop to then go go on out. Whereas there seems to be a bit more hency towards it now, and I can understand just say like when Corey McLoughlin fought Mario Ditano on Cage Conflict, that's a cracking fight. That's one of the best. Like Masky and McLoughlin then as well. Like they get their cage wire experts in my opinion. And at the fact that they went in and they fought each other. >> Those days it just goes to show that there is some fighters around. >> And I think I would rather have all Irish fight each other and everyone have an opportunity then if you put them against people from other countries and then there's just possibility of them losing. Whereas if it's two Irish, at least one Irish person is going to win. But it it depends on the stage of the career or as well. >> A lot of old North Armagh fighters age warrior's level proves we have now to fit them all in the card. You're going to have to have a lot of Irish versus Irish because there's, you know, I still think with Paddy being the main event it should have been in Belfast. But I'm sure you know that. Um It's for him to have his big sort of homecoming in terms of in his not just been Ireland but in his home as home city. >> Yes. >> I thought it should have been in Belfast but I'll say to them when I was in you know uh you know boy. >> Yeah, it'd be good. I think you You and Phil Campbell are going down together, aren't you? Cuz that's what he was saying to me was he said it's been years since he's got to do it. And then obviously you two have been have been best friends or friends for like substantial as long as I've known you which is 5 years and it goes back even beyond then. So it's going to be nice for you to sit down with your mate and watch his fight. >> When did you meet I think. It was the first time we had met so it was twice. I've had to put up with him for a long time like. It's when both I had hair I had him in the when I started having a bit of fun. >> He was so complimentary about you in our interview so I don't know how this is going to go down. We'll find out at Cage Warriors it might be Aaron Wallace versus Will Campion. >> There might be a secret between us you don't know. >> And Mark Goddard in between the middle of you and you can have a Cage Warriors slap in the venue and see who wins. But look it's been an absolute pleasure talk to I can't wait to see you get to that the next UFC step and reference in the UFC cuz I think that is on the horizon for you. But yeah thank you very much. >> It might take me a few years but I'll I'll get there some point. >> Anything that's worth having is worth waiting for you know so it's it's it's a pleasure watching so far you're a pleasure to be around every time I have a show you're always like what's up big man even though I'm about like a third of the size of you. >> [snorts and clears throat] >> But it's always good seeing around the scene and it's really good to see what you're doing outside the scene and how it's progressing so I can't wait to see that go further. Thank you so much and enjoy the rest of your day. >> Thank you very much mate. See you in the show. Have a good one. >> Thank you.