Andy Chapman Interview

Ringkasan

I spoke to Andy Chapman about a variety of subjects from BJJ retreat Wrath Combat upcoming Clanwars MMA and social Media Sensei Chelle

Transkrip (youtube_captions)

Hey, so I'm here with Andy Chapman. He's going to be hosting another retreat this year. I believe it's the 21st of July next. Is it 21st July? It's 21st. 25th of July to the 27th. 25th to 27. And you obviously it was quite successful last year. Um what's the differences this year? Because there is a few differences I noticed when I watched uh the reel on it. Yeah. So like last year I was living renting a farm up in the mountain and like I'm not there anymore. I've moved. So, we needed a new location. So, uh, one of the members at the gym, uh, Daniel Morrison, uh, has a like a glamping site down just right on the foot of Ben Mountain by the Rome. Beautiful place. Um, so I approached him to see if he'd be open to taking it and just went to have a we site visit to see if we even could run something like that there. And he's got like a big barn that we can clean out and lay the mats and stuff on for for the weekend. So soon as I saw it, I was like, "This could work, you know, uh so we sort of spoke about getting a we do for the weekend and it was good for everyone uh Monday." So we just thought we'll try it and see. Um so we're going to run three seminars and then we're going to have a like a BJ invitational on the Saturday night as well. Yeah. No, it sounds good because it was like last year was a a good success. That's why you went this year as well. and I thought the price of it was was quite reasonable. Um, how's the feedback about the changes that are made for this one? Yeah. Well, we were able to run it at a super good price last year because I didn't have any rent to pay on on the venue. Um, so there is a we bit of rent for the the glamping pods. Although, if you look at the the Instagram page, the pods are incredible. They're like hotel rooms. Um, fully cut it out like fresh bed clothing um electricity and lights and stuff inside. Every lamp pod has a a fire pit and a barbecue outside. Is such a cool setup right by the mountain. Let's fast. So there was a wee bit of extra cost just because we have those glamping pods rather having people on camping in their tents. And then also last year we didn't have sharing facilities at at the farm. So uh what the local gay football club has kind of lend us the their changing rooms. So we bust people down twice a day. That's not ideal. Like it in in a night situation, somebody just would have a shower whenever they want instead of having to be waiting all the time. And a bus was driving down the road to open the GA club. Uh so this year there's onsite showers. Um people can cook and stuff where they want and there's going to be street vendors there and food going to be brought in for breakfast and lunch. The cost went up slightly, but not much. Like uh maybe 30 or 40 pound over two nights. Um which is really cheap now. Yeah, it is. and and what were the the highlights kind of that you really liked at the last one that kind of made you want to to go forward and do this one? Yeah, it's just it was because everybody had such a fun time coming from all different parts of Ireland and people coming over from from the UK as well is that there's not often an opportunity in grappling and BJ for people to get out and roll and with like strangers. They're always 90% of the time training with their own teammates. And I think it's important to to like share those rolling experiences with people that you don't know, don't know your game, you don't know their game. So, you're learning a we bit more. You're getting presented with new problems. You're asking questions. I like throughout my BDJ um like personally, I would have like had a technique or something that was working really well for me. Um and then what happens is everybody at the gym starts realizing uh the technique that you're using and they start form a good counter state. What happens quite a lot is that you start forgetting about that technique and not using it anymore because you don't think it works anymore when it's just it's not that. It's just that you're also training your teammates how to defend what you're what you're attacking. So it's good to be reminded that those things do work for you. And then also like it's exactly the same in reverse. People are going to be doing things to you that you don't have a clue about. So you're getting introduced to new problems and stuff as well. So there was that the fact that people were there from so many different clubs and it was just a good laugh. Like Adrian Elbert, you know, that runs Grapple Kings. He came up in a in a camper van, load of people uh and they were just great. Uh they had the we barbecue going. They were giving everybody venison burgers right through there and stuff. Just a real good community feel to it. Um that made me want to run it again uh this year. And I just I thought I thought it was going to be one and done because when I moved away from the farm, I thought this is not going to be possible to run again. Um but then just talking to Daniel Morris someone like Nim, he's like, "I should come out and see it and if it works, it works." And as soon as I saw it, I was like, "We we can absolutely run this here." Yeah. No, and I like that you were saying about coming together with strangers and rolling together. And the BJJ one is such a good community, but most of the times I would just assume that you meet at invitationals and stuff like that and you're there to to try win your match or try win medals that you don't kind of spend I would like leisurely time together. You just it's kind of you see them on a scene. Is it nice to see them in a personal setting then as well? Absolutely. It's it's great to see people away from that stress and the pre-match anxiety and stuff like that. even if you're not up against them, if they're there in a different capacity, it's just nice to meet people in a in a laid-back environment where they're not under that stress of competing. And then that doesn't it's not even competitors coaches as well making coaches from different gyms that that that you bring in to classes because like as I say I've been doing this 11 years now and like what I know is like a speck of sand on the beach you know like so I'm teaching things that and I'm all we're all constantly trying to learn and stuff as well but somebody somebody you bring into the club will absolutely teach you something new that that you've never heard before or they'll explain it in a way that just makes more sense in terms of executing. And I think that's a really good positive as well is that you can be exposed to different coaching styles and that like there's lots of different coaches that come to the retreat. Coaches that coach classes and then coaches who are there just to be part of the retreat as well. Like we must have had about 10 or 12 coaches that just paid to come and do the weekend that weren't coaching. So you're sitting beside those people on the mats as well and you might be telling them about some problem you have in a certain area and they're able to give you different um different ways of approaching answers to it. So, as well as it being just a really fun, laidback time, it's also a time where you can like expect to have big jumps in your game because of who you're mixing with evolve. Yeah. No, it sounds like that. uh jiu-jitsu because jiu-jitsu is always evolving and like you were saying if you go for one move all the time it was like for a while people were always going for legs but then people found counters for legs and like do you find that stuff like this helps uh jiu-jitsu evolve because you get spread so many ideas to so many likeminded people. Oh absolutely it helps every every time every time two people rolls anywhere in the world the game's evolving. Does that make sense? Like it doesn't matter where it happens. So like it if you're bringing people together from different clubs, you're absolutely accelerating that process anyway. But like it's such a different game than it was from whenever I started because your access to information now is ridiculously easy compared to what it was when I started. Like you had a struggle to get one or two videos on a certain technique you were looking to practice um whenever I started. Whereas now you can buy things or the things are free on YouTube and on reals on Instagram. you're almost bombarded, overloaded with information, which is a good thing. But sometimes as well, there's there's a lot of muck that gets put through the process. And I would get people messaging me saying, "Does this work?" And some of the stuff that they send is just nonsense. But you you have to let people figure that sort of thing out for themselves as well. Yes. Yeah. No, I can imagine. I can imagine. But yeah, it's going to be a good weekend again as well. So hopefully all goes well. But also we you've had people fighting MMA and you've got people fighting MMA as well. Talk to us about the club, how it's going because it was good to see you over the weekend. It's been a while since I've seen you in person. Um yeah, how did you find the show? Oh, Ralph was brilliant. Arnold and his team were on a a great show. Our clubs had a real resurgence resurgence through introducing him and made a timetable. I had back surgery last August, so I had to take three or four months away from the gym and things were a wee bit still. Um, and I knew that it just needed like a shot in the arm. So, we put MMA on the on the full time table. We were running uh classes for alpha project that was happening in D before that, but we just said we'll put MMA on the timetable and see and see how it goes. uh have a a really good MMA coach in Danielle Thompson and uh Leon and I would do a bit of grappling with them as well. So they're getting like good access coaching. As soon as I put MMA on the card, like the membership just shot up in the in the adult uh classes and what impressed me the most was a good 50 60% of those adults that were going for MMA were also uh doing PJ on the train. were buying geese and they were training in the ghee class and no gee classes and I remember Andy Ryan always saying that to me it's like if you get MMA going in the club make sure that the guys that do MMA classes make sure they're doing all the classes in the time table that they're doing if you have a wrestling class or a G class that they're you know you're getting exposed as much as much as possible. So I try to push that and uh it's it's starting to to like shine through. We've had people come to the gym to practice MMA from different styles like boxing um and judo and now they're getting into a bit of BDJ as well. Aside from MMA with so like things things are things are looking well and because of that we're able to start putting uh people on cards now and amateur level. Uh like we had a we had two guys fight amateur Leon and Robin Tong. Robin made his amateur debut at Berdus a few months ago. Um Leon's back for a second fight on Clan Wars now on Sunday. And then we've had a few of the the guys from the kickboxing team that have come through and um made novice debuts. So the guy that was on Wrath on was it Saturday or Sunday? Was it Sunday? Was it? He Yeah. Well, he he did a bit of points kickboxing and made I think that's actually a second fight. So he's he lost his fight at the weekend, but um it was a really good lesson and you know how to adapt different styles for MMA because he was very intent and and keeping the guy at range. Um and you know try to land kicks and punches on him and the guy was really good at throwing this big overhand to keep the clinch and get his style going straight away. So I think at novice level these guys and girls are having a good chance to learn about how they need to blend styles and shows a graph are brilliant for that because like the card must have been I would imagine the card was half novice fights or maybe even two/3 novice fights. So it's a yeah so it's a brilliant platform for introducing the sort of people that I have in the gym at the minute into that into that environment. And let's be honest, day of viewer there, it's as good a setup as you can get on the domestic scene for running an M show. Like the venue was brilliant. We were talking just before we come on air about how the cage was a we bit lower to the seats around it. It was almost like a like a gladiator gladiator type field with everybody looking down on top of the fighters. It was brilliant. And Ireland did a a brilliant job of putting a good show together. So like as small up and coming uh clubs all over the country like we're so blessed to have people that that put their energy and passion into putting these shows together. So no he ran a great show and like despite the result that we had at the weekend it's all learning at that stage like you always hear people saying that you know the results don't really matter until people turn pro on topology and that's when people start looking out for you know your records and stuff like that. Not that anybody wants to lose, but um it's all about experience. Like Patrick's 17 and he'll come back. He'll come back strong. Yeah. I know 100% you will cuz like you look at people who like go on mad losing streaks and then they just like Kieran Clark I believe was like a 50/50 record from his amateur and look at him what's he 11 and0 12-0 now it's so he put himself in all these situations in all these different styles and like like I said amateur the records don't matter the experience he gain well the guy comes into and he's actually going to a retreat Jordan trains at FAI like you'll know Jordan well. Yeah. Like he's massive on the scene now internationally not even domestically but like I think he had lost three or four of his first amateur MMA fights. He had came into MMA from a from a striking background. Um the gym now and he was grappling as I came way up the street. He ended up turning that all around at amateur won four or five belts an amateur now he's three and0 as a pro fighting on on cage warrior. So like he's another like ju just like here in a perfect example of somebody who's used that experience early on as an amateur just to learn about what what you need to do differently to make an impact in MMA because MMA is such a weird sport and that there's all these different styles being flung in together. It takes time to to learn how to adapt what you've learned as a young fighter um to become a more well-rounded uh martial artist. And like he's a perfect example of that. Yeah. And like you said, it's really weird because like do you ever think of MMA Matt? It never works out. Like you could beat one person and then vice versa or so and it just doesn't matter. There's so much to learn. But um you've got obviously Leon and another girl fighting this weekend. Um talk to us about Yeah. those ones coming up and and the what's it like being at Clan Wars? I've been to one or two. The production is very good at Clan Wars. Yeah. I've never been to Clan Wars, but like I've seen the production on on Instagram and it does look very good. These are two really interesting fights this weekend. what you're chatting about the MMA math is like it's so true like I've been looking at a we bit of tape on on both opponents but sometimes it's pointless saying that because you throw two different people into the cage together and completely different things happen uh with a girl Caitlyn Dunn who's one and0 was novice she made her novice debut at uh Verdice on the main card on Vertice a novice fight uh back in early May and she had a great uh like force the stoppage in at the end of the second round. Um, she's up against uh Jemma Cogle who's who looks really good to be honest, like just looking at a wee bit of her stuff, I think. And you can't really judge too much about what you watch on tape either because people, especially at novice level, could have changed their style and game and game plans so much in a short space of time because they're still so early on in in their career. From watching from knowing uh what Kaitlyn brings to the table and just from watching a wee bit of Gemma, I think that both girls have definite roots to victory. Um, I don't want to talk too much about where we see ours or or where we see strength on the other side, but both guys are both guys are really exciting fighters. Like Gemma Gemma's uh debut on Tom Wars was a brilliant fight. Um, actually I watched it again this morning. Um, she's really she's a really exciting striker. I've seen her in I've seen her in grappling invitationals where she's impressed. Um, so that's an exciting fight, especially because Kaitlyn, although she's only come into MMA since January, like her grappling's improved exponentially, like she's won matches and competitions already in grappling, uh, despite coming from a striking background. I think that having a wee bit of striking experience has helped her with grappling because she's tough and she's tenacious and she's gritty and she's not easy to put out on the ground. So, I'm just excited. I'm excited for that fight because I actually don't know how it's going to go. Like, I think that, as I said, there's clear from where I can see, there's clear paths to victory for both girls. Um, it's just a matter of who can get their get their game going first. Um, Leon, like Leon was so impressive as a team, uh, novice fighter. Um he went through almost everybody that he fought, won belts as a team. Um have was very much known as like a jiu-jitsu specialist like he's been training with me for since he was up to my waist. Um so has been training jiu-jitsu for a long time and used that jiu-jitsu uh and had a lot of success as a team like I think he finished all his fights as a team by submission. made his uh amateur debut and lost his amateur debut. Um I I think that his opponents coaches had a great game plan for him. Uh and that's that like that's that's what Robbie likes. So I mean you'd expect that. Uh but then it sort of made me think I need to start watching uh tape on opponents as well because that was like a clear example of someone that had done a wee bit of homework on one of my guys and was able to implement a really good fight plan to counter that uh counter wrestling against the wall was brilliant. Leon found it difficult to take his opponent down where we think that we would have um had a clear advantage in the dry. So then that forced me to think a lot about because MMA is so different to BJJ. Like I think a lot of the time at BJJ it's who can get firing first, who can get their game plan going first. MMA is completely different because stylistically as we were chat about earlier, there's all these different variables coming in and uh like I'm still very much learning how to adapt as a a BJ player and grappler and a coach that's involved with MMA now. um because I had no physical experience as an MMA fighter to fall back on. So, like it's very very exciting. I've had to work a lot with Daniel Thompson, who's my full-time MMA coach at the gym. I've had a really uh colorful amateur career as an MMA fighter before stepping back and got into full-time coaching. So, it's been exciting. It's given me like a fresh passion uh to get stuck into in recent times. But for Leon on Saturday, I think we're we're in Caitlyn and and and Gemma's uh cases, it's sort of a fight that can go in all these different directions. I think for Leon, Leon's opponent is is a striking specialist. Like he's he's got K1 experience and a bit of boxing experience. Um I think it's very clear how we see the fight going where we we want to see the fight going. Although in saying that as well, Leon's striking has improved so much in the last year since he's uh decided to stay on with MMA and and and go into the amateur ranks. So, he'll no doubt want to test that, but I know where I hope the fight goes. Um, and I'm sure that that his opponent's coach will hope that he know or know that he wants the fight to go in a certain direction as well. So that's like for me, and I could be completely wrong, that's like a real old school fight where you've got someone who's very good grappler up against someone who's a very good striker. Um, and probably both fighters have developed really well in the other area. So, it'll be interesting to see where that goes as well. I'm I'm looking forward to it. I've actually got uh five or six kids at a grappling competition in Belfast that morning at Solid Ground. So, we'll be there coaching the kids and then straight over to the venue for Clam Wars. It's going to be a really busy day. And how is that as a coach like to be able to juggle all that? Cuz obviously that's a lot of your free time on a Sunday. And does it be stressful like that? You you have to go coach in a certain area and then knowing you're having to get and it will there be like an overrun or like would you be stressed out or is that just all part of what you signed up to do? Um it doesn't it doesn't often happen where you're at two events at one day. But sometimes it does. And look, if you can't be at both events, you'll have someone else at the club who will cover one of those events. So, it's never stressful. I mean, this is my job. And it beats having a a job that I don't enjoy. I get to go into the gym every morning and and practice something that I'm passionate about. And I get to go back in the at nighttime and and teach something that I'm passionate about. And then sometimes at the weekends, I'm busy. But sure, that's better than than having a like a 9 to5 that I don't that I don't enjoy. So, like I I I don't see it as pressure. This the weekend won't stress me out. It excites me. Um because like and that's I'm talking about it excites me from seeing how a six-year-old kid in the first competition gets on to seeing how an adult gets on in an MMA fight. So, like it's right across the board. I've got kids that are doing their first grappling competition on Sunday who are just be nippers. Um, and seeing how they get on is just as exciting as seeing how Caitlyn or Leon gets on because it's all part of the one umbrella and it's all it's something that I'm passionate about from from a really young age up. So, I bring it on. I can't wait for Sunday. I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah. No, and you said something interesting there about a 9 to5 job. I watched a documentary the other day on Patty Hulan. I don't know if you've seen it. Uh 10,000 hours. And that's why he says a 9 to 5 job is like death to him. Would be like death to him. That being able to go out and do what you do and express yourself through martial arts is is a way of life and uh that he doesn't see it that way. But one of the points about obviously Leon versus when Leon lost against Rody's boy and you were talking about they had a game plan. Isn't it mad that MMA so evolved that like in the first amateur fight they're studying an opponent that much to come up with a game plan rather than what it used to be just going in and and and trying to implement your game without doing any research. Yeah. Uh well, I think social media has got a lot to play in that as well because it's quite easy to see what what somebody's been doing for the last five or six years if you just go and look at the page unless it's private or I mean you've got smooth cop accounts and there's so many ways to find out what people's backgrounds are now. Um so like Leon has done really well on the BJ scene over the last five or six years like he's won at at Kids World's level, Europeans level over in England. um like he's an Irish champion. He's he's done really well and he got his purple belt as he just turned 18. So like obviously his jiu-jitsu levels is going to be good. You would know that even if you didn't study any of his tape. Um but I just think that that's the way the world is now that it is a we bit easier to to get information and see things online. like I was able to study a novice fighters tape online like on YouTube by just the click of a button. So it's it is a lot easier. It's something that I didn't think was like as a BJ player going into competition. I never really looked at what my opponents were doing, but I just think there's such a massive difference between BJ and MMA and that like range matters and stuff like that more than it does in BJJ because in BJJ you have to get into an engagement and the match goes from there. But in MMA like there's range management depending on what your style is. There's the wall. There's so many things that just makes it so much more difficult. um to comprehend how fights are going to go, but so much more exciting as well. You can see why MMA draws a massive um entertainment vibe to it. It sells lots of pay-per-views compared to DJ being really boring in terms of being a spectator sport. They're like night and day. But I think a lot of the reason why that is is because anything can happen in MMA fight. Yeah. Like someone could maul someone. I think it happened to Derek Lewis was getting mauled against I think it was one of the Russian guys for three rounds and in the last 90 seconds or something he knocks him out and that fight completely changed on his head with one strike. Absolutely. That that can happen in in jiu-jitsu as well to be fair like somebody could get mullled and be losing 30 or 40 mil and and submit the person at the end. But uh it's just that you have to think about strike and you have to think about wrestling. You have to think about uh submission rest and you have to think about the cage wall. There's so many different things that uh makes the sport so difficult to understand what's going to happen. Um and I think because of that game plans and studies we more important I think. Yeah. No 100%. So you've obviously have your own show coming up at the end of the year as well. Um have you what's the progress on that? When do you start matching? Have your things matched? Um what you looking forward to the most? Is there a match up that you've made that you're really looking forward to? Well, my MMA coach, uh, Daniel Thompson, like it's been 10 years since he fought, but like he left the amateur scene at a really good level, wants to make his pro debut, so we're going to try and get him a match for a pro debut. Um, so we'll look at we'll look at matching him uh in the next month or two. Probably people might start messaging you now and say they want to fight. He's a bantamweight if anybody wants it. Um that sounds as if it's not that's not a call out to anyone as well. I would love to get him a match uh because it's something that he wants to do. We've uh another couple of pro fights that we're looking at like we've always loved having uh Bla Miguel on the show. Um and we he's close to making a pro debut. I don't know if it'll happen on Chaos, but we'd love it to happen on Chaos. um because he always brings an electric vibe like I'm sure you've been at Bla Miguel fight night and there are special things. So we would love to make that happen. No opponent or anything offered uh to his camp yet, but uh maybe maybe that'll happen. I don't want to let uh shoot the gun and and it maybe won't happen, but it's definitely something that that we we're chasing. Uh we're we're running another alpha project between Dar and Lovat. So there'll be like a a pre prelims uh novice card uh with lots of like a debut novice fights on that maybe and guys maybe one or two fights. Um, so the the it's looking it's looking like it's going to be a good show because the the fights that we're looking at on the main card are, you know, it's good local people on the card that'll bring uh that'll bring good crowds to the show and we're moving it back to the Everglades. We used to run shows from the Everglaze before the Millennium Forum. We just wanted to try something new um because we've been in the Millennium Forum now for three or four years since we started uh running shows again. So, we just thought we just got to change it up and see what happens. Um, Neverglaze was always a brilliant venue because the ceiling's so low, so the noise is good in the venue. Thought we go back there and see how it goes. It might work. We might be back in the millennium form for the next one. We'll see. Um, but it's looking it's going to it's going to be a good show. It's going to be a busy show. Uh, the Verdice card back at the beginning of May had like 40 odd fights on it. Not sure. Were you at Vertice? No, I heard there was 43, I think. Yeah. So, it's going to be uh like a similar size of card, although we'll be starting uh a good bit earlier. I think that that show uh ran past my bedtime, so I'll be pushing for an earlier st. Yeah, I've been at shows where that's happened as well. And you mentioned Bla McIll. I I was I have been there and it is electric and he always brings the crowd and you see that with when even the likes of James Lavin or any Derry man fights in Derry. Yeah. It's just it's an it's an absolute occasion, isn't it? Absolutely. James is another boy because do you know what? They're exciting fighters as well. James Slavin's a very exciting fighter. He goes in there and he wants to knock people out. Exactly the same as uh as as Blaine. Like he wants to go in there and he wants to take somebody's head off. So, like we were talking earlier on about MMA being more exciting than BJJ to watch. Like that's an example of two guys that are proof of that that they go in there and they have exciting fights. And Gary, for whatever reason, is always had people like that since we've started running shows like uh like James Gallagher coming through the ranks. He was on our show. Always went down and was exciting. uh as a young kid we had a guy at Evolve uh Gavin Kelly who had done a fight on Cage Warriors like mad wrestling style where he' run somebody up against the cage high crutch and it spiked them on their head. He was famous for that. So like we've always we've always had that that so we've we've been lucky. Um, I'm not sure what the reason is, but these guys that are on the scene now, they put bums on seats, so we want to get them on the show if we can. Yeah. No, 100%. Aim indeed is another one, but I don't know if he is fighting anyone, man. That would be that would be how how did I because he's probably the he's probably the the biggest example of what I'm talking about. Like anytime he gets in a cage and I know like he only fought was it two did he fight twice as a pro? Oh my god, he was electric. Like as like had this energy about him walk into the cage. He looks the part. He's He's like definitely the type of MMA fighter that you would see someone like Dana White would want on the UFC just because they're he fits the bill. Like he looks the part. He's just a mongrel. Like and he uh he's so powerful. Um, yeah, he's a perfect We've never had him never had him on a like on a pro fight or anything like that, but I don't even know what what he's doing now. I know he's training away because I would see photographs of him in FAA and he's uh holding pads a lot for people. Like the the experience that that man has at his age is just insane. But yeah, he's the he's a perfect example of a local guy from Derry that's that's just electric. Yeah, like there's there's something about him even when I met him in person and even when I watched him at um I can't remember it's the show in Derry um K and Steve show uh but real fighting championship but his entrance like watching that with that production you're just kind of sitting there going like that was there's just an aura about him isn't there of like he could be if he he's potential super like he is a superstar but he could go very Wow, he's not scary. He's just scary. Like that walk out for real and he was like chitting. I can remember the I can remember the production as pl as plain as day. It was a few years ago now. But like you're sitting there going the [ __ ] would step in a cage with that man. The space he is on him tonight. Uh and that fight against Troy, man, he was just he was brilliant that night. It was one of It was one of the most impressive uh performances I've seen on a on a pro deut. Uh yeah, he's just different. He's he's so exciting. He's a man that I would not want to fall out. A dark alley. Yeah. No, and like that it was that was his first ever MMA fight. not even just thing and and it was it was uncanny and but like that there is he would be someone gets but like I said I don't know if he's fighting h I don't know what the story is cuz I remember I think I seen him saying something that maybe he wasn't going to fight again but um yeah he would be electric but yeah so is is going to be busy with the uh the show are you going to have the grappling uh merged with again or is that something that you're not doing again this year? We'll we'll see. like I spoke in the case of it. Obviously, I put grappling on it because it's it's my area and and I love grappling. It's still my number one sport. Um but it's not just as we were chatting about now a couple of times, it's not as spectator friendly. Um it doesn't put the same number of bums on seats. So, from a business point of view, it's probably not super sensible to run a pile of grappler matches. um when the grapplers, they don't sell tickets the way that MMA fighters do. But who knows? Like it just depends on how the the interest for MMA fights go. Like there was a situation on the last show where we almost had a a really well-known highlevel MMA fighter who wanted a grappling match on the main card and but for whatever reason it fell through to do a contracts uh with as an MMA promotion as like if something like that was presented to us absolutely we would look at it but for like uh for two local white belts or blue belts or purples or whatever just to have a match Um, it it's probably ticking away from time away from a couple of debut novice fighters that'll bring their family and third of their friends to watch them make their MMA debut. Does that make sense? Yeah. No, 100%. No, it does make sense. And like you were saying, because there's so many gyms like yourself, there was a a gym that I seen at Valor, I think it was called 14th Street, 13th Street or 14th Street. And you just have as well as other gyms, loads of noviceses coming through as well. And like you were saying the likes of RA and then now using that space where the VJ were to give the novices a chance because the noviceses need these opportunities to kind of get used to before they go into amateur. Yeah. So we've obviously we've talked about the retreat, we've talked about um grappling and we've talked about your guys coming up and you were saying you got like a resurgence in in the club when the MMA went up. Do you think that's a national thing? Because there's a lot of clubs coming around now that are fighting at shows I wouldn't have seen before. One, for example, was uh the Republic of Jiu-Jitsu from Dublin who unfortunately had the the arson attack on their premises last week. I've never seen them at any shows and and there's these lot of gyms popping up at shows that might be like heavily BJJ or kickboxing. Do you think that's just a national thing or of the worldwide thing even that MMA is just getting more and more popular compared to the other combat sports? Uh they're get one as well, didn't they? The Republicans just get one that was on Raph at the weekend. Yeah. Um suppose that was nice for them after the terrible luck that they've had over the last couple of weeks. Um, but I I think there's lots of reasons why it's happening and that that what we're BJJ purist clubs are probably moving into mixing the arts or different arts. Like I think it's getting people through the door as well, isn't it? like if you have if you have a coach that you can trust to come and pick classes for you in a in a different style um it's potentially bringing new members uh into the gym like uh one of my best mates Jason McCabe that runs evolve and vary like he he would often talk about the different types of people would go in for different uh arts like the MMA would normally attract a very young type of person um maybe coming out of the school looking for something to do or even even younger than that where PJ sometimes people maybe a wee bit older that have jobs professional jobs and families and stuff that are that are looking for a hobby or something else to do. So if you can have if you can offer different things within the gym that's reaching out to different cohorts of society and you've got more chance of getting different types of people in the door. So there's a we bit of that. Um, but like I think that MMA has always went in cycles anyway in popularity. Limovati here, MMA was massive back 10 years ago and then there has like there hasn't been much happening in mixar starts in Lumat for the last 10 years and now it's massive again. Like the there's another club in Limat that also has started running MMA classes recently. So there's two clubs running classes now when there was nobody uh two or three years ago. So, it's obviously just on a peak again and no doubt it'll it'll go down and up again. Um, but I think it'll go down and up like with a general theme up the way because MMA seems to be like a massive sport worldwide now. Everybody knows who the big MMA stars are all over the world now because like certain people in that sport became superstars then that that helped to raise the the profile of the sport as well. So I think that MMA is just going to keep growing and growing. Um the other thing is that Brazilian jiu-jitsu is on the same trajectory like it's it's a growing sport and then the more Brazilian jiu-jitsu clubs around Ireland then the more chance there is for at least the percentage of those clubs to start cross trainining styles anyway. So that mean in turn that's going to grow MMA as well as a sport. So, it's probably going to be more common that you're going to see gyms names at local shows in the future that you maybe haven't heard of. Um, and they're going to be become local household name gyms in time. That's just that's how it happens, I suppose. Yeah, it's mad. And that's what I was talking to Michael yesterday and Andre Spinda originally came from Gway and so a lot of people would have looked at Andrew Spinda and where he is now. he's on the Ultimate Fighter. All it takes is someone to see the likes of Leon to go and go on this little streak. And then do you find when you have someone like that, someone that just has star quality, that helps within the area of other people thinking, well, I went to school with Leon, I could be like him, too, and I could potentially be uh a superstar MMA fighter. Absolutely. There's no doubt about that. And especially with this generation now, like I'm just like people see me as just an old man now from the town. And uh like I've had people come up to me in the shop and say, "Oh, you're Leon's coach." So they know Leon and they maybe seen the old Baldi boy in a photograph with them. But they know who Leon is. And they're like, "I seen you in a photograph of Leon. That that's happened so many times when I'm getting my my coffee." It's like, "Oh, you you're you you're I've seen you in Leon's photograph." So like that's definitely um helping to get more people into the gym is that if you have people that are quite well known uh amongst their peers in the sport then there's more chance of them bringing mates and stuff into the gym. I've I've noticed that anyway recently with even younger people in BJJ I've noticed that. Oh, say hello. Hello visitor and I'll be out now in two minutes. All right. Oh. Um, so there is there is that there's like a that younger generation and they all they all know all their peers and they're talking to their peers and they get 3,000 likes on a social media post and the next thing you've got extra 10 people through the door. Like we have a we 15year-old uh jiu-jitsu boy and like within the space of the last month about six or seven his classmates just started doing it just because he does it, you know. That's that's mental. And I think that's smart. Social media has a part to play in that as well with the younger ones because an example for me was I went and interviewed Will Fury and Brian Moore. Two like well-known Brian just retired real kind of Brian especially a trailblazer there in the early days. When I done interviews with him in depth, it was the likes of the guys who were amateur just going pro that were getting more views. Do you think it's just because as you get old cuz this wasn't a thing within their era that that's that's what the where the younger kids is all about that whereas Brian wouldn't have a more story I don't want to say interesting than someone just going pro but he's a lot more things to talk about but it's just social media because it's more aimed at a young crowd I think 100% that is so true like uh there's some like superstar OG MMA fighters in Ireland who should have massive followings but they got really really big probably before um the influencer phase took off like people like Norman Park I don't even know maybe Norman Park is massive on social media I'm not sure he might be but like he's a like a local MMA legend about 40 or between 40 and 50 pro MMA fights fought all over the world in the best shows I guarantee that there's like up and coming people who probably have more traction on social media is just because of generational thing. It's like that this is the new generation's way of communicating and uh you can fight that or you can like if you're a business person you can jump on board the train and try and use it to get more people into the world. Yeah. And funny you mentioned him. I when I was commentating on Valor, he we were talking about Ronnie's gym and who came true and I said for me and I think this like it could be because it's a different generation and I would have watched Norman kind of when I started coming into this but Norman Park I don't think gets the flowers he deserves either. And I don't know if that is just me looking at that or is it because the the people that you predominately use social media wouldn't have been around to see him because I think he's a winning record in the UFC. Like I said, he's fought all over the world. He his when you look at his career, it's unbelievable. And I don't think he gets a mention as much as he should. I I don't I don't really understand. I mean, Norman, like his, uh, his record's good, too. His pro record's good. He's fought on the best promotions in the world. Like, uh, and he is an absolute savage. Like, his style's brilliant for, well, for me as a grappler, I think it's brilliant to watch his style. It's so suffocating. Um, and he should be a superstar in Ireland, but he's definitely under valued by the MMA community. I think he's the name that came to mind straight away whenever we were talking about social media presence and stuff like that. He he should be a superstar. Like he's some of the stuff he's done in the sports just unreal. Um, but he's just of that generation, isn't he? He's just he's probably just missed the boat in terms of this the the social media influencer phase that you almost need to be on board with now to build your following. Um he was just before that that time uh that generation. So yeah, it's exactly right as I was saying about Leon and there's other people as well like uh people like people have introduced themselves to me through Leon's Instagram page. So there has like it's happened a lot. Yeah. It it's mad how that goes. Like it it is because I like that I would do uh Instagram live with someone who hasn't made an amateur a novice and there'd be 300 people on it and I just say I'm going to pick a random name here. I don't know re not reason. Yeah. Just even if I interviewed someone who was big, let's just say Chris Fields. Let's say there might be five people watching this sort of way. And I only picked him because I know I don't think he has an Instagram. So, I'm not saying he'd only get five viewers, but you know what I mean. Like, I had a novice on and like 200 something people watching it and I was like, "This is crazy." Like, it's just it's a mad and it's unfortunate that fighters feel like they have to actually some enjoy it, but so, you know, there's fighters that just want to fight and then that's not them. They don't want to be do bravado and be out there. But if you don't do it, it might cause you the UFC look at you. Joe, will I bring him on contenders or him? Well, this person has 100,000 followers and he is 15 and they don't do much. And that could be a deciding difference sometimes. Unfort Unfortunately, I think I think I think this happens in every different sport and in every different aspect of life where generational things change and like like in every sport that you'll hear people say it would have been like that back in my day or so it's gone soft such and such, you know, all this. So like you can have that view or you like if you're running a business in the sport you have to be like well it's moved on to this stage and I need to get on board or like I'm not going to fulfill my potential and bringing through that next wave of people. So yeah, it's like you can have the opinion of, oh, they're all soulboarders now online and uh wouldn't have been like that back in my day or you could say this is just the way the world is now and they need to get on board with it otherwise he'll be left behind. Yeah. Yeah. No, 100% because there's a couple of fighters France Milambo in Ireland really good record really good fighter but he doesn't use social media so he didn't get opportunities. Um Georgie Grov I think Joe from Patty's gym not that he doesn't get the opportunities but I don't think he get me get gets mentioned as much because he's not on your feed every day where some people aren't and and like that's sometimes the cream will always rise to the top regardless but it might take a longer time to get there if that if you look at if you look at it this way Dave you can't blame promotions for wanting to give somebody a chance who has a following of thousands compared to somebody who's better but only has a following of a couple hundred people because the promotion is also a business and it's not fair but you can understand it. Yeah. No, 100%. Because like that you need to run these shows, you need to set like shows cost a lot of money. So there needs to be like from a business point of view, you need people coming in. But I just that's what I'm just saying about the game evolving and like we talked about Norman as well. It's just like I find it uncanny that that there's a likes of Norman Park and all these people that should be talked about as legends, but they don't. They they aren't unfortunately because of of the social media, but it's just it's the way the word's gone, isn't it? But Norman's Norman is a good example. Like he's uh any like for people that that don't know who Norman Park is uh and they're maybe coming into MMA um now in the last few years, like look him up, look up his topology and look at his record and what shows he's been on. And there are people like that all over who have went to the top high high level and they just because they don't have 50 million followers online doesn't mean that what they've done is any less impressive. Yeah. No, 100%. I I just think it's it's a it's a mad. I like when I talk to Rymore, he talks about social media for them was remember boards.ie E and you'd go and there'd be fights in the the So I've never seen this myself though, but I heard it was like a thread of Conor McGregor when he was younger or someone else having a go at each other at boards on boards.ie. Like it just shows how how much has changed. But that's right. I can remember that. Yeah. No, cuz someone told me about it and they sent me a link. He said like look at this. This is how these So you'd have to log on go into boys post that comment and then you probably it's not like now Joe Facebook you get notification. You'd have to go back log back in to see if they've replied yet. It's just how how far has come. But like in terms of social media as well, we I've sent you a couple of reasons. You send them back to me. H about Sensei Shelly, I believe it is, and the stuff she's put up. I was first introduced to it by watching Ali McLean, who was I like a lot of his stuff. But the first thing I thought was it was it was a joke to be honest. But and the more I see now that that she does this as living as she sells this to people. I don't fight and I don't train. But I can see through it that is is it a con or is she delusional or like because some of techniques he's talking about will not work and she's going to give us people false hope and and false sense of security. As a grappler and as someone who's competed and in combat, like what do you make of of what it is? She she's an anomaly from what we were talking about before because we're talking about these younger people that have this massive social media presence and um then older people that have done a lot uh don't have a social media presence. She's like of my vantage even maybe a bit older and she's a huge social media following. She must have like 80 or 90,000 followers on Instagram and like she's been on national TV morning shows showing techniques and a we pink ghee and um I it's a weird one, man. Like I I hate like putting other people down that that do combat sports and martial arts as phonies. But she's selling something that I think it I think is is dangerous because people people will uh people will look at her stuff and think, "Oh, that's okay if some kg man grabs me in this way or grabs my boob or whatever nonsense she teaches that I just have to do this and that's going to be me safe." And it's my goodness, it is so far from the truth. Like I've been doing this sport for well over a decade like training twice a day live every day and I wouldn't feel confident situation any man let alone let alone like a woman in her 50s who's far smaller than me. Um, but it's uh like I have looked at her page and stuff and it it comes from a place where it's uh somebody showing a technique against somebody who's not resisting after they've made an initial movement and showing yourself the best technique. And I can tell you now that you could learn a technique where somebody puts their hand on your shoulder and you start to initiate a response, but you could drill that response. the the hand they put on your shoulder 15,000 times, okay? And you could do your rechain that will put that person on their back or whatever. You see, like out of those 50,000 times that you've drilled that technique against a non-resistant opponent, see, as soon as that person does something else after you' made a movement, all those 50,000 reps just goes out the window and you're back to stage one again. And this is the problem that I have with uh self-defense techniques against unresistant opponents is that it's just so unrealistic that it's scary and you don't understand it until you do a sport where you're training in a live combat situation. Often it's the same as learning a technique in jiu-jitsu. Like a technique like you'll learn a technique and the technique won't work the first time you try to do it and the rules are the technique because somebody is trying to stop you from doing the thing that you just learned. So everything goes out the window. It's like it's it forms part of the argument why like uh coaches are talking about more conceptual and ecological approaches to coaching uh movement and and grappling arts and and MMA and stuff like that because it's not realistic just to expect that you do this then you do this this this and this because the other person is not just going to stand there like a statue. Um so I think it's dangerous. I I don't think that that it's uh generally a positive thing for um techniques to be put on national TV that says, "Look, if this person does this to you, this is what you do, and that's going to sort it out." That's just not the case. Um but at the same time, if that encourages one person to look at combat sport and maybe look for their local combat sport club and go and start doing classes, then I suppose that's a good thing. Like my advice would be is to do a martial arts or combat sport that has lots of live training like whether it's MMA, BJ, judo, wrestling, [ __ ] uh boxing, kickboxing, tie boxing, Mai, some sport that involves a lot of training against somebody who's resisting what you're trying to do to them. Um, if it lets somebody take that step, then that's a brilliant thing. But if it tells somebody that I turn my head towards my armpit and go down towards the ground and that's going to put this 90 kg man on the ground, then that's delusional and it's dangerous and people I think should be talking out against it and like filling the comment sections of posts that go uh to national audiences to encourage people to get into different martial arts and different combat sports that might make a difference. Like I've I've been training I've been training combat sports for years and years now and like even I wouldn't be 100% confident in the situation. Definitely been more confident than if I hadn't done anything at all over the last 10 or 11 years. But training a resisted combat sport makes you realize how vulnerable you actually are. So I think that people need to be aware of that. you need to be aware of when they're in danger, when to get out of danger and get away is like like that's the sort of thing we should be teaching people, especially smaller and weaker people and like women commonly come into that into that cohort. Um, so telling a 50 kg woman that you sniff your armpit and drop to the ground. No, it's it's maddest. And at the start that you said you didn't want to like give her like give her a dig so to speak or something of that effect. But you also at the end there, I was about to say it needs to be called out though as well because if she's delusional or if it's been sold as a con, it's it's going someone's going to get hurt. It's it's like you said, resistance. You have a plan MMA boxing, everyone has a plan to get punched in the face. So that's their punch in the face. If someone resists what you do, Yeah. you you freeze up then because everything you've been shown has led you to think that when that hand goes there it's going to be non-resistant and it's going to work and when it doesn't you're going to these these people are going to get hurt they're going to shoot themselves 100% like see that thing you just said there now like the first Brazilian jiu-jitsu class you go to you're going to very brutally understand that that's just the case you can go in there after watching a YouTube video of a technique that you're going to do to the first person when you're sparring that night. And I can guarantee you, you're probably not going to do it to that person because as soon as they resist the thing that you're looking to do, everything changes. So, um it's so it's so unrealistic to think that that um watching this video of a technique where you do these fluffy uh shoes and that's all of a sudden going to make a difference is it's it's scary. It's absolutely scary. Like um but people need to people need to feel it. They understand it. Like we could talk we could talk about this all day and we could talk try and rationalize what someone who isn't ready to be rationalized until they try it for themselves and then they'll understand. Yeah. It's it's going to be a shock and is I just I think it's madness. I still don't believe cuz I did I seen the this morning show, right? But then when I seen there was reals and it had sense Shelly and I really thought when I looked at eyes is she actually just trolling us now like like is she this delusion that she doesn't realize this or or this like you say a whole social media marketing thing because whether you agree with her or not there's more comments that don't agree with her and they're huge but they are also giving her traction. Yeah that's the problem isn't it? But I mean I I actually don't mind that. I I think that I think that it's okay that if somebody watches a video and they read the comments that people are calling it out, but what I would say it's it was actually my the company that I run my insurance through the gym for Martial Arts Great Britain. There's a woman Don Bullock that that runs that company and she had put a post up on her Facebook page talking about this and she was saying and she made a really good point. It's like instead of just saying it's [ __ ] tell the people that's reading the comment what she should have done, what she should have been looking for, and what she should train uh to make her more um confident in dealing with a situation like that that might come to her or might potentially get close to coming to her. And I think that was a really good point. And I think that's where I took stock because I was doing the same thing, Dave. I was jumping on saying, "This is [ __ ] This is nonsense." But that's not helping either. It's like try and try and like talk to people about why you're saying that about what they should actually do and what they should actually train if they're interested in learning self-defense. Um, and here's the see when we're on that like I'm a DJ purist. My art's not a golden bullet by any means at all. So many flaws when it comes to self-defense. You need to train. You need to train different ranges. You need to like even if you train all ranges, you're not training weapons defense. So like there no one's an expert at self-defense because every situation is completely different. But what you can do is that you can make you make yourself understand how vulnerable you are and give yourself the best chance at dealing with a situation if it ever does come to your door. And that's by in my view joining a combat sport club that offers a sport that has a lot of resisted training. Yeah. No, 100%. And you were saying there that like you watched a YouTube video on that and I watched MMA and and I said, "Oh, I'll go do an MMA class." And I'm going to tell you when there was 17, 18, and 19 year old lads, year old lads punching me and kicking me. And especially when I was get I cuz I thought I hit in the face, I'm would have done when I was maybe 36, but even at 36, when I was getting hit in the face by these kids, like these animals, I was like, "You know what? Fuck." like that Joe you people would imagine I go not that it doesn't look that bad but because I've been around it oh I'll give that a go and then when you actually give it a go and you you feel these things it's not what you and then you get the reality check and go Dave like you're 36 years of age this person so you need to be in a position like you said to go training and to to get that training so if a situation like that did arise that you can def defend yourself adequately instead of And it's it's the it's the knowledge of how vulnerable you are. Um like and it's you have no idea how trained somebody is when you look at them. There's the people that I know who look like nerds that wear glasses and spotty faces that look as if they're no threat to anybody that could destroy like 95% of men that that I know. Um, but you don't have an understanding for what I've just said unless you train in an environment where you see it. And uh I think that if anything what if anything what training a combat sport martial art does it makes you realize how vulnerable you are. And uh I think that I think that that humility is important as well. It's not to say that that it won't work when you need it. uh like god forbid anybody will need to have to use something that they've learned for so many years, but I would rather have it than not have it. Yeah. No, 100% 100%. Um I got to let it go there. I want to thank you very much for your time. I really enjoyed this conversation. H best luck with the retreat obviously Leon and your other fighters over the weekend. Chaos coming up and everything else in between. Is there anything you want to say before you go? No, just thanks very much for for having me on. always love coming on having a we chat and we'll get Jason and I back on before chaos once we get a few matches lined up. Yeah. No, 100% as we get closer because there's just so many shows at the moment as well. But there's no there's a gap now and then they're all going to pile up but they they're a little bit more evenly spread out now uh than they have been. There's one or two that have landed the same day but last year I remember was just a bit it was mental. It was weak sat Saturday weekend on weekend and it's a little bit more spread out. So, thank you for your time and I will talk to you soon.