Molly Doyle interview

Ringkasan

Molly Doyle is a sports psychologist, working with fighters to improve the mental aspect of their game, it could be from a mental block to having proper steps in place to manage stressful situations that may occur during the process of a fight camp We speak about her background…

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minutes. So, okay. So, this is my first interview of the new year as well. So, this was supposed to happen a couple of times. Uh I've got Molly Doyle Metal Performance is how you'll find on Instagram. We've had a few conversations. I came to her through from Lewis Burn and he spoke about the mental aspects and and how she helped. Um so, I'm delighted to have her on. I think in MMA and sports, the mental side of things have been kind of left aside for years and years and years. Now, you can see it coming more true. You've seen a lot of bigname fighters talk about it and that kind of opens the gap then for people to go. I think mentally like you can train physically but you need to also train mentally for things and prepare for things and there might be things that you don't realize uh you're lacking and and Molly and and others will be able to fill that gap for you. So I think it is hugely important within the sport. I think it's left aside a lot but I think it is starting to come true. So thank you very much for your time. How are you? And how are you finding uh being the sports psychologist? How how have you found it so far? And what kind of drew you to it and what does it mean to you? >> I'm good. Thanks. Um it's really good to come on here and have a chat about it like that. Like you're saying to kind of talk about what sports psychology is for me and you know there's a lot of misconceptions about what psychology is and how it can help and obviously like you've spoken about the kind of stigma around it. So if I can even help people encourage people to kind of think about it a bit more after today that would be great. But yeah, sports psychology for me, um, to be honest, I never really, it wasn't something that I was like, okay, sports psychology, I'm always going to do that because I loved psychology and my background was in psychology just on its own. Um, but I never, even in my modules, starting off, there was no sports psychology module. It wasn't something that was very obvious to me, but I have like a big sport background. I've always loved sports. So, when I found that I could integrate both the two, I was like, "Oh my god, amazing." Um, but as well I kind of come back in awareness now and look back when I was playing football and realize how much I could have used sports psychology then. So big to me and how I want to work now is to make sure people aren't in the same place I was in and kind of help them have that balance in sports, enjoy sport and obviously thrive in their performance, get the most out of their performance. Um, and that looks different for everyone how they can get the best out of their performance. But it's my job to try and understand the individual to try and get the best out of their own performance and get the best of their potential. >> Yeah. Cuz like you said, you could have done with it years ago and you you probably see you have more people coming. A lot of people more open talking about it now, which is quite good. And that's come through the last couple years and every individual is different. It's like in anything you will then need to see what is there is there a blank there? Is there something? cuz you've probably seen uh like I said Lewis had talked to me and like Lewis fought 13 times in one year and you can fight and you can train all you want physically but sometimes the mental aspect needs to come into it. Do you think over the years that it has been kind of left to the side but is it coming more to the forefront? Do you see a lot more people coming to it now to get the peak performance out of themselves and they people are now realizing that's kind of the missing piece sometimes? >> Yeah, definitely. I think so. And I think Ireland in general is just a lot far behind in accepting sports psychology, not just in in combat sports and in every sport, but it's definitely getting better and I'm seeing it. But even for me as as my career, there's not that many career opportunities for me to practice, never mind for athletes to see sports psychologists. Um, and like that, I don't think you realize how many how much it can help you until your your awareness is opened up to that. So, you know, that's why having a presence online and trying to make it more accessible to everyone, not just the elite athletes, not just the athletes that have the money that can afford it or are working with the team that can afford it. Trying to find ways that athletes can just recognize and see where it's at because like that you're you're limited to your own experience. So, if you haven't gotten a chance to encounter sports psychology, you're not going to know how it can help. Um, but like even say with Lewis, I think people think that you need things to go wrong to go to a sports psychologist and it's not like just like Lewis as an example, nothing was going wrong for him. He just was open-minded to unlocking different aspects of his performance that could make him potentially better. So, um, that's a big kind of I think stigma that people think, oh, if I go to a sports psychologist or a mental performance coach, I have to be losing or injured or something to go wrong. But it's not. It's just trying to find those little nuggets that you can be 1% more or it might be trying to sustain that performance for you and it sustain that enjoyment for you. >> Yeah, cuz like you said, you can always improve and I actually applaud the people who when they're winning and when things are going well, they always kind of look to improve as well. It's like you said, a lot of people will do it when they lose or something, they'll go right, something needs to change. But people who are actively like Lewis and like look at his hair. He's gone on since pro. And Lewis is just one of the nicest people ever. I think he was the second person ever to let me interview them and he spoke quite highly of you. What's the kind of common thing you're you're coming across? Obviously, you can't divulge uh names or or stuff like that, but is is there a kind of a common thing across the board or is it an individual and an individual basis because people are different? >> Yeah, of course there's the individuality aspect and you know meeting people where they're at and the the difficulties they face. But I suppose something that I noticed before even like looking in at combat sports before working with individuals was how much stressors combat athletes face like okay there's the like I was reading a paper once and athletes more broadly face like 640 unique stressors compared to like the day-to-day person and then you look at combat sports and the amount of stresses they have to face whether that's like sponsorship ticket sales like the instability of like their actual fight their opponent might put out the week of you That's a lot of um examples of things that don't happen in other sports. Um so that's something that I see and I like to work with athlete outside of just their performance and looking at you know their emotions, their social life, their how they're dealing with things psychologically because that all impacts the individual as well. Um and how that's going on and how they're coping with that and appraising that. um and getting them to find ways that helps them function better, accepting those things cuz like that these things are going to happen and they're not going to be able to change them or control them. But my job is to try and help them thrive and get on with their performance alongside them rather than trying to get rid of them or ignore them because they are just going to seep in eventually and and impact you. So that would be so kind of answering the question is I would see like stresses as one of the big things that that can impact performance because I think when you get to a certain level you know I think credit to athletes they're a lot better and it's because there's more information out there on you know how to motivate yourself how to help yourself thrive and push that little bit extra. But there is not as much on like that compassionate stance and how to get along with all these things that could go. So obviously with people pulling out of fights, stuff, people like that's something out of your control. You do try and get them to manage that better than previously because if you can't control it, it's going to really really annoy you and really affect you mentally. Is one of those things trying to then get them to manage that better. Is that one of the things that has cropped up in in your time? >> Yeah. Um, one of the things I like to do with athletes before even that these things happen is that we try and like anticipate them and predict what could go wrong and a lot of the time people are like oh like I don't want to think about the bad things cuz that will make them happen and you know I don't like that frame of thinking because they they are likely to happen you know and we have to have things in place that if they do so if we have thought out okay say if you know wake up goes wrong what can we do or if your opponent changes how are we going to respond to that and you already planning that in your head, it it makes it less of a panic when it actually does happen because you've taught it's true. So that when it does happen, you're not thinking, "Oh my god, crisis modes and fire, flight, like what are we going to do now?" You've taught it's true. You have a plan. Okay, it's still not ideal. We can accept that you should be frustrated, but we have a plan in place that we're going to respond to efficiently because it's all about ensuring that athlete feels like it's going to be a challenge, but it's not going to be a threat. So, we have resources to overcome this. >> Yeah. It's like the saying fail, prepare, prepare to fail. If if with what you're doing, you're preparing them for in worst case scenario, this is what happens. How do you manage it and bounce back? And um in life, I think I 80% of what you actually worry about never actually comes through. Um but when it does come through, you're there. Um is it just obviously you said you have a sports background like what's the kind of variety and range? Like you've got obviously we know you've MMA fighters. Do you have it from football or obviously no information given but do you have it from all different backgrounds coming to you and how have you found the reception to kind of what you are doing? Is it a lot more was it a lot more needed than you would have first thought or was it more needed than you thought what you do? >> Um I definitely knew there was a demands there and need for it because like I said when I played I didn't have like any awareness of or knowledge of it there. Um like if I knew it was there I would have used it. It would definitely would have. So for me there was a lot of like I would have experienced myself a lot of stress going on inside a sport and you know that led to me not enjoying a sport and you know it seeping in and losing my love for it. So if I had have had someone there I think I wouldn't have lost that and that's kind of where my passion comes from now to just try and ensure that athletes don't experience that either like at the end of the day this is your freedom and your play like we need to keep that way and to try and reach your potential too. Um so I knew that it needed to be here. I think I just knew that Ireland was missing um a lot of people but there's like I work in with a lot of brain sports psychologists now and there's so many in different fields there is a lot in there's a lot of engic games there's there is a good few in football um there's no I haven't really seen many expertise in combat sports um but yeah I would work across a few sports like gymnastics uh table tennis football because I think like that it's needed in every sport. It's just trying to funnel in to that sport and what their demands are. Um, but the way I like to work is that like the individual is the expert of their own experience. So, I don't need to have a a background in the sports to be able to help them because I'm not going to give them advice. I'm not going to tell them how to how to do their their sports. You know, they have coaches, they have SNC coaches, they have nutritionists. I'm not there to give them advice. And sometimes I think with when I'm working within an individual like a few people might be able to testify to this that like they look to me to be like so what am I going to do? And I'm like I'm I'm not going to tell you that like the day I give you advice is the day that I'm doing my job wrong. I'm here to bring awareness to you of what your decision should be and help you get to that spot. Um, so that's why I think it is helpful when I'm working across different sports that that I can operate that way and work that way and but like that having an understanding of the sports itself, the demands they face. Um, obviously like what their training looks like so that when I'm coming to them, I'm not being like, oh, what what do you mean you have to train three times a day and what do you mean you have to like do this to cut weight, you know? Um, so there is a mutual understanding there too. >> Yeah. And like say combat sports is unlike any. That's why it kind of drew me to it. because there's just so much that goes into like say training mentally and and stuff like that is one of the things that I'm curious about as well is like a lot of people might have a mental block. There's a couple of fighters I'm not going to mention them that like you go and see them in training and you're like man like this lad is going to be like a champion. And then when it comes to to fight day it it's and then you watch them and you're like that's not the person I see in the training room. Like do you have you had many instances of like okay you can train it's fine but the actual day and event has that been something that's been brought up to you maybe uh by other combat sport athletes that is like you have to go early get your medical stuff like that done and it was one of their issues might be the actual event and people being there or was it linked back to maybe training leading up to because I think the event is one of the things that people get overwhelmed by when there's people there people drinking it's rowdy whereas is in the training room, you've got your set thing. Was is that something that's been brought up to you? Is is kind of the things you have to go through leading up to especially fight week is quite hard with weight cuts. Is that something that's been brought to your attention? >> Yeah. No, definitely. I like that it's very like individual based on on looking at why that it might be impacting the individual like it might be because of the pressure of the fight night and say especially if it's local, everyone buying tickets and everyone around them and kind of the pressure that I need to perform. I need to do well and that adding to that and how they're perceiving that um it might be like that cuz there's too much going on that that week and they've actually like mentally drained themselves. So when it comes into the night that they're they're not able to focus. Um or it might be that they're focusing too much. So, a lot of the time I see that that athletes will say like that their mind's gotten in their body's way that they're, you know, when you're when you've gotten to that level, you need to be able to trust yourself and trust your trainer and let things be automatic and let that flow happen and act off instinct, especially in combat sports. So, when you're going in there and trying to force things and trying to think your way out of it, that's when you know things have gone wrong. So, you know, if you're too busy thinking and that's where like suppressing your emotions becomes a problem cuz if you're getting in there and you're trying to suppress waste energy and suppressing these emotions and you're so fixed on your thoughts and what you're thinking, you're you're gone into, you know, that manual mode, you're no longer going on automatic. And that's what I do see a lot. But I think fighters are quite sometimes quite aware of that as well. And you know, the mind body connection and they'll say like I wasn't, you know, my it was my head that got in the way there, you know. Um, I couldn't just go with the flow. I was thinking I was trying to predict my opponent's next move rather than just going on what I wanted to do. Yeah, I see that a lot of people predicting like that what the other fighter is going to do and the research they've done on them and then when they get into the cage like I would see an amateur from one fight to the next can improve so much and be different and then when they get in there and they're hit with something different there's no kind of plan B rather than do you get them to look on at themselves and focus on themselves as opposed to other people and the surroundings and problems. >> Yeah. And that's where like mental training outside of the situation comes in. Like you will need to be practicing mindfulness and that mind body connection and finding ways to regulate yourself and doing that practice and experience because if it comes to fight night and you're relying on trying to get use these mental tools say they're not going to be as accessible because you know you are in high pressure moments it is more difficult. The emotions are high. So you need to be practicing these things outside in training. So it's like similar situations but then also like when you're at home when you're in a more relaxed state. that when it comes to these moments when pressure is high and demand is high, they're easier to unlock cuz they're more habitual. You know, you like whether that's breathing exercises or or even figuring out what works best for you. You know, it takes experience in training to find out say, okay, music pumps me up. It gets me aroused, it gets me ready for my performance. Or maybe I'm the person that needs to sit back, relax, do breathing exercises. Um, and that's going to be optimal for me to go into performance. So, you know, it takes that experience and practice to try and figure that out. Um, and then be able to use it best on fight night. >> No. And when you see someone that has come to you and you see them succeeding and them kind of giving you a lot of credit personally, how does that make you feel? Not just obviously as your profession but as a person. I say do you get a great sense of kind of pleasure and kind of fulfillment seeing them being able to go on and overcome these battles after having sessions with you and having you as part of their kind of team going forward. >> Yeah, definitely. But but like it sounds cliche but like it's it's me. It's you doing the work. It's just me giving you direction. So like I just it's just very I feel great very grateful to get to see people that come to the awareness that you know I'm not a problem. It's not a problem. I just didn't have the tools to figure it out or you know I I just didn't have the awareness of these things. And it's nice to see them become empowered and have that awareness that they are getting better and that they're feeling more aligned and their values and the way that they want to live. And you know, that's where I want the athletes to be at to be finding that love and keeping that spark. And if they can if they're performing highly alongside that, then that's just that's music my ears. But how to have that um alignment for them and for them to actually be filling um and doing what they love, that's just the best part, I guess. >> I think you're downplaying your your influence in it as well. I think obviously you said it's all them doing the work, but they had to come to you to to unlock these things as well. Um, so I think you're downplaying the effect that you had. I think you're very humble. But I think a lot of people don't know what they like that they could have a mental block. You're giving them tools and they've gone forward and we've seen the people give you shout outs and and I won't go through the names and stuff, but um it is you have been a huge part of people's success going forward. One of the one of the things I'm actually curious about as well is the things might not be issues in do you find sometimes stresses outside of the your training and kind of fight cam stuff like that like personally are they things that might also bleed in obviously we don't want to divulge any information but like their personal life might be affecting >> their fighting life. No, definitely. And I think like sometimes I'll talk to athletes and they'll be like, "Oh, like why are you asking me about like my friends or my family or you know my work and I'm like because that all plays a role. you know, you only have a certain amount of energy to exert each day to day like um so if you're wasting resources on things that you might need or if you have demands elsewhere and I know for fighters um training and performing is their outlet and they'll say sometimes you know it's fine that can be going on and I'll go to training and that's my escape and that's great and I can appreciate that and I recognize that as well but for me it's to ensure that that those stressors don't start to seep into your escape, you know, because over time, if you just keep ignoring them, your escape is going to end up not being your escape and they're going to just naturally get brought in. So, we do need to look at these things that are going on because like I said at the start, there is so many stressors going on. Um, and a lot of the time the work I'll do will be on just interpersonal things like whether that's like relationships or friendships, looking at your social circle, you know, your level of acceptance, if you feel like you belong and connected because that's where well-being is at its core. It's looking at your social life. It's looking at your emotions and looking at your psychology. Um, so I need to appreciate those whole aspects. Or it could be like looking at the gym environment. Is it an environment where you feel accepted and you belong? Like that's your second home. looking at that, but then also like we know that financial strain is huge in in a lot of sports, but in combat sports specifically. So, you know, that might be playing a role in the stress that athletes are experiencing um or the fact that they have to work so much to keep um to keep training, to pay for training and things like that. So, yeah, that's something that I do put a lot of emphasis on and in exploring and working with athletes with um and trying to find a way that they can manage it all. And something I always try to say to them is that like they're one individual and to try and split themselves up each week into different things depending on their goals. So if it's fight camp naturally you're going to be spending less time with your family, your friends and on work and that we need to accept that. But then after fight camp that's where you can give back to these areas. You know you can never give 100% everywhere but you can give different percentages to these areas at different times in life. And it the the moment we can accept that and work into that and look at how we can plan for different times within your routine and schedule, it becomes more freeing and it puts yourself on a lot less pressure. >> Yeah, I like that. Obviously, you want to get a whole 360 view of the person, what's going on because like I said, all these and it happens to everyone. All these little things in life will add to different stresses and and like I said, combat sports is is probably is there's not much money in it and I don't know how they survive sometimes and do all that training and like you know I seen people fighting PFL and they still work a full-time job as a manager somewhere and you're just like that is mental. You're on a global stage but yet you have to do 40 50 hours in wherever you may be but there is so many different factors into it. How have you how have you found it so far? And and what's your your plans for the since you've had people come on board? Have you found more combat sports people more open to then maybe reaching out to you looking for it? Not maybe taking on, but maybe reaching out on certain subjects. Have have you found that since combat sports people have kind of acknowledged what you've done for them? Have you seen not floodgates open, but more people open to to the psychology side of things? >> Yeah, definitely. I think a lot more people are more open and even considering it and you know I have had people reach out for for oneto ones and to do work but I think it's so difficult for them and for me like oneto ones are quite demanding and people might always want that in terms of time and and for me like I need like I suppose it's like a lot of professions but you do need to I want to give 100% when I'm working with someone you need full concentration you need to be able to be there for that individual your unique needs and you know that's not it's not like their careers, you can to take a lot of people on within that, you know, to be able to to provide for them the best. So, you know, I'm I'm trying to find ways that I can make sports psychology more accessible to people beyond oneto ones. Um because I think that's really important. >> Yeah. I don't think cuz I don't think like a onetoone one session isn't going to really do much cuz like I said, you need to get the whole 360 view. people at the start might not be as open and obliging with kind of information. You know, they might hold stuff back and whereas obviously over time they'll be more comfortable and and do you find that does happen that over time people actually open up a bit more and then you start getting to the kind of root issue that they have over more sessions because they've become more open. >> Definitely. Yeah. 100%. Like building that relationship in the first place like I'm a stranger to most people of course they're not going to want to tell me everything. Like that's that's only that's only human. Like it and each person will you have to meet each person where they're at in terms of what they want to tell you on each encounter. Like it might take 20 sessions for you actually to tell me or it might take a few sessions for us actually to figure out okay we thought it was this but it's actually this you know um and being patient and having that time. But yeah, it's very like for some people it might only take like one or two talks and it might be something that they feel like they can get on top of or it might be less frequent for some people and more frequent for others. Um it really varies on the person's goals and um aspirations for where they want to go with their mindset like that. It's not necessarily when there's a problem. So people might want to do it, you know, every month just to check in to see if they're doing the right thing and if they can do any more. Um yeah. >> Yeah. No. Yeah. Cuz like I I think after when you go to someone you're quite hesitant to kind of open up and I think over time they will open up and and have you come across that it was an issue that people didn't realize was an issue um before just say it was a blank or that there was something in their life that they actually were weren't addressing that they maybe subconsciously put to the back of mind. Is that something you've come across a bit? something that they wasn't at the forefront but that was the issue and it wasn't something that they would have considered an issue but it was a bigger issue than they might have initially thought. >> Yeah. I think so say for example like it might be like a go-to that you know that you aren't focused or you're not able to concentrate in your performance but you might necessarily know why and you might be putting it down to like your physical training isn't hard enough or you're not doing the right things there. But then we'll come to realize that say like stuff going outside of life that's that putting a strain on your performance rather than you know the physical things or the go-to things that you might think it is. Um so I think that's what comes up a lot for people that you know it is what's going on outside of their training outside of their performance that they probably might want to focus on too much um because they don't think it's a problem and it's not a problem. It's just you know working with these things to try and make sure that they don't impact your performance. >> Yeah. and to properly manage it going forward and and getting the best out themselves. And yeah, I've really enjoyed this conversation. I'm going to let you go unless there is something that you want to add or if there's something that you would like to talk about. >> No, I don't think so. I think that this is really good chat. It's been nice to just talk about sports psychology and the relevance it has to combat sports. >> And how did it feel for you being on the other side doing most of the talk instead of most of the listening? >> Oh, it was it was weird. You know, it was I was nervous coming on here, but I can't I always say to athletes, you know, nerves are goods. Nerves major matter and you have to push yourself out of the comfort zone. So, I do have to practice what I preach and it was really enjoyable. >> Yeah. No, and I actually say that to people as well when they say, "Oh, you know, they're not nervous coming up something." I say, "For me, if something means something, you have to have those nerves coming into it because for me, but then again, some people are different. They're more cold." But I think you need those little bit of nerves. But I've really enjoyed the chat. Hopefully we can maybe catch up maybe halfway through the year, maybe in 3 months and and we'll talk a little bit more what kind of I've explored a bit more and kind of more what you found out in in what you're doing going forward. But uh thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of your day and I really appreciate your time. >> Thank you. I've loved it too. >> Perfect. Right.