Cian McCabe interview

Ringkasan

Cian McCabe opens up hid gambling addiction, from when it started to realising he had a problem to seeking help.

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[music] Okay, so I've got something different uh today. Obviously, if people had followed me for a while, you seen I talked uh with people that had uh issues with drug addiction and stuff like that as well. And I came across Keen H cuz I followed him cuz he fights and I seen he'd uh recently just got out of uh rehab for gambling as well. So I asked him did you want to come on and talk about and make people aware. So um thank you very much for joining me. I it takes a lot of courage even to admit you have a problem to speak about it publicly. So I really appreciate you coming on because it is it's it was a hard time. Uh but you're through it now. Uh how are you feeling first of all and thank you for your time. >> H no worries and thanks very much for letting me go on Dave and try and get this message out to people. Uh no I'm doing very good now in fairness. H I got out there 7 weeks ago on Sunday gone by and you know I'm doing very very very good h compared to where where I was at like before I went into treatment like you know but it is just one day at a time I have had the that was hard for me to accept that you know I can't think towards the future I just need to keep it in the present but I'm doing very good I'm doing like I'm I'm doing a lot better than I was I can tell you that much [ __ ] >> yeah and that's what they also take it one day at a time like so I know people that have been other stuff and it's like if I can just get through today without doing it then there's tomorrow and and it's it's constantly that. But obviously your yours was gambling. Uh you've spoken about it publicly. How how did that all start? Like where did gambling start for you? >> Uh gambling started when I was 16 and when I was in college. Uh I used to get paid for being in college. You know the way you get the monthly the monthly money whatever I can't remember the Suzie Grant whatever it was. And you know I met a lot of friends and when I was in college and I was the young lad in college so I was kind of like a follower and all the lads that was in college they were all drinking. and they were all gambling and you know I just one day when we were on break from college I ended up going into boil sports and in C town here and soon as I walked in that door my whole life just changed you know and that was the moment for me that I just thought oh my god like this is the life that I can actually I didn't [ __ ] win I can tell you that much I didn't win that day but I love the thrill and the adrenaline that I got from it like so you know and that ever since that I just kept going and going and going and you know 10 years I'm 26 now I'm 27 in a couple of months but it was 10 years and it completely broke me at the end. >> Isn't it mad how how one thing going in and doing one bet or or one thing then can change the trajectory of of your future and your like if you go obviously you'd stop yourself going in that day >> but isn't a mad thing that day you just went in all in just to make a bet or whatever and the fact that uh the way things had turned out but uh what what was it you started with if you don't mind me asking was it uh football bets slots uh horses or or what was it? I started with the the roulette and back and horses at 16. Yeah. I don't know how the [ __ ] I managed to get it at 16. I do I did I I did look a bit older, but when I was that age, but I was a roulette and back and horses. Yeah. Yeah. [snorts] I didn't [ __ ] win. I can tell you that much and I should have [ __ ] left that day, but I didn't win and I just loved and it just kept me there, you know? If I if I won, I probably would have been wouldn't be in the situation I'm in now. But yeah. Yeah. >> You would have taken the money and ran instead. >> Constant chase. It's a constant chase with the money, especially when you lose money. Is that something that you've come across? You put 50 quid into a machine, okay, you get back up. All right, I'll put another 50 in just to try and win that 50 back. Is that is that something that you would have done? >> Yeah, when when I went on to the slots then and the online casino and all that. It was just it was more of the thing of the slot actually spinning that I got my buzz, you know, it was the actual it spinning and hoping I was going to win something. Do you know that kind of way? Like I didn't give a [ __ ] what kind of money I put into it. Like it was just hoping that seeing it spin and then it just went in my head. Like the the the rush I got from that was it was unbelievable. And even today, like if I went back gambling today, I would still probably get that same rush, but I just know I can't go back because if I go back gambling, I'd be dead straight up, you know. >> Yeah. Cuz it's like that. There's different I've been on online and there's different sounds and you're like I actually find myself now if I'm doing it, I'm waiting for the sound for one of the scatters to Joe when you get two scatters and then you wait for the third one. If I would have put it on and I put on an auto spin, I'm I'm I'm actively listening for for that sound. So maybe I need to to stop myself. >> Yeah. Yeah. You might need to stop it. All right. But you see, even in the casino, it was the smell as well. The smell in the lights. That's that's what got me then as well. It was the lights. And when you walk in there, you were welcomed. You know, you'd walk in there, you might get a sandwich, you might get a free cup of tea or a free cup of coffee. And it was just something that like if you were if I never I never really got that when I was growing up on the outside. Yeah. was welcomed in places and blahy blah like but when you went in there like it was just handed straight to you know that kind of way. So that was an addiction in itself just going in and getting all whatever I wanted basically for free you know. >> Yeah. It feels like a home away from home sort of thing. You >> feel like a home away from home. Yeah. >> Uh and that's that's a bit mad. Obviously they they've made that setting to make people comfortable. Obviously they don't want people to go on and have addictions and stuff and that's just part of it. But from obviously you said you started at 16. Like how did it progress? like if you if you're comfortable talking about like how much money would you be putting on the roulette and putting on horse bets as it progressed near the end of it I was like I said to you before we were on here I used putting 50 euro spins and 100 spins like that's that's that's brutal you know what first started off as 50 cent bets on the slots ended up being 50 50 euro to 100 spins I was losing serious money serious money but I was winning serious money at the same time but I was always losing at the end because I was never happy and never satisfied with the man that actually won. So at the end of the day, the bookies and the casinos always always won against me like do you know? >> Yeah, they they do against everyone I think and and like that the adrenaline when you hit it like said I was saying I got up to like 1,500 one day and then lost it all from 25 quid whereas if like we talked about the like I was trying to withdraw and they were like no you're verification that that's tricks in itself but how did you fund that if you don't mind me asking like did you have to get loans off people? Was it you were spending all your money? Were you constantly broke or? >> Uh, I wasn't it wasn't that I was constantly broke. Um, obviously from the fighting that I was doing like I was getting a lot of money on ticket commission because I always had a big following and a big gra big like people coming up to watch me fight. So anytime I got that I used to always gamble that do you know that kind of way. Now I didn't get much in ticket commission but I got enough. You know I was working then as well so I always had a weekly income coming in then as well. Like so and anytime I had that weekly income it was always gone. You know I could get one like I got paid in a Thursday Thursday morning. No, Thursday night, sorry. And it was gone by Friday morning. Like, you know, and if I got paid from the the fights, it was gone then straight away about an hour after like, so I always had the money there for it. And I'm not trying to brag or like I always saved. I was an off man for saving. And that was one of my first ever addictions was saving money. I was an off man. Just a typical C man, a tight [ __ ] Like, you know, straight up. I had money under the mattress and everything, you know, that kind of that's just the way it was. And I used to always save and I always saved up good good money for myself but I always blew it and I was a compulsive spender as well. I'm a compulsive gambler and a compulsive spender like so I just I always wanted more you know so I always had the money there for and the funds to do it so I just did it you know it was never a point that I was never broke but I was broke at the end of it. >> I wasn't broke at the >> Yeah. I I listening to you, I have similar traits to you. From when I was a kid, I was really good at saving. But then if you when I turned into my mid to late 20s, if you hand me 500 quid, I would spend it immediately. Whereas before, I would have said, "Right, what do I need? I'm gonna take this out that so I'm I'm gonna have to make sure I I don't >> um and then like that the the money as well been like getting the money from fighting and then would would that be your first thought as soon as you get your ticket commission right I'm going to slots with this or >> like just a memory >> before I fight that thought before I fight >> so once you know how much many tickets you've sold you know what money you're getting and you're thinking right I'm going to go on go here or go to like would you go online more or to the slots more or >> it depends on where I was, but it would have been I would have been in casinos more often than it would have been on slots like online like you know that kind of way because it was so handy for me to access here in town. Like I only live 5 minutes outside the town so I could just drive in and go and do it like you know that kind I always had cash too so I was able to do it that way. >> I was making money I was making money in ways probably shouldn't have been making money too either like but that's just the way life is you know. >> Yeah. No 100%. And one of the things is online I find with online it doesn't feel like it's real money. Did they ever feel like that you like it >> until it's gone and you can't take it out of your bank >> then the realization is do you think online gambling because I see for like for just games on on your phone they have ads for gambling and some of these games would be aimed at kids or something I think that's wrong I don't think gambling should be on any sort of games but do you feel like online has increased obviously you said you spend casino more but have you seen or heard stories of online because it doesn't feel like it's not coming out of your pocket it doesn't feel Do more people have issues with online? [snorts] >> Uh, but at the end of the day, like online is just digital on the screen. It's the feel the feeling of cash was the one for me, you know, it in my hand and feeling the cash that was that was the big thing for me. That's why I didn't really do online. Well, I did do online at the end of it because I had [ __ ] bank and I did the money in it like that kind of. But it was always the feeling of cash, you know? I always just loved that feeling of cash. Especially when you if you won a jack a jackpot in in the casino and you took it out of the machine or you went up to the counter to get your money paid out. Getting a big lump sum with cash in your hand was was was a good feeling like you know. So that's why the online didn't really stick to me. It did at the end but at the start it didn't. It was always just casinos inside inside inside the bookies office getting paid hand pays all this carry on like that's just the way it was you know big wad of money coming out [ __ ] getting two envelopes wrapping around with [ __ ] elastic bands and the way way I went like you know holding money as if I was [ __ ] walking around with two [ __ ] massive shoulders like you know that's just the way it was. And obviously like to get to that stage, you said you went in first when you you were 16 and then with that. So like did it when it with the roulette and the the horse the horse like what was it that made you want to go back? Was it like even though you lost was it like was there nearly was he nearly there or was it you wanted to coop your money or was like the thrill? It's hard to say it's going to be hard to explain to someone that doesn't doesn't know but [snorts] was it just the thrill of it that made you want to go back again and again again and then what did you progress? Did you progress on to everything from slots and all from there or was there different timelines for different kind of games or or bets you were making? >> Uh well at the start it was it was a thrill. It was the dopamine hit that I was getting like that's that's it was an unbelievable hit that like the [ __ ] horse and [ __ ] win. Like I've said a couple of times but the fact that I was jumping around like a mad man hoping he would win and he was so close to winning like that was the thrill that I got from it like you know and I was like oh Jesus this could actually be something I could actually do like and I could get handy money from it from doing it. And there was times where I did get handy money, but like at the start when I started when I was 16, I had stopped then when I was 18, you know, I stopped I obviously started kickboxing and I started kickboxing very late and I kind of put all me focus and me energy into that and at the time and I was training but on on the side on the back of it the gambling was still in the back of my head like you know that kind of it was always there like anywhere I went I was always attached to it. I was always dragg dragged back in whether it was online or whether it was in in bookies or casinos. And I went then from when I started my kickboxing, I had stopped for nearly a year and a half. But I obviously between winning fights and losing fights and then being down to myself, I always wanted to get that dopamine rush again, do you know? And that's where I got that like that's when I was in treatment, I said that to my counselor like I get the same rush in gambling as I do if I win a fight. That was that was what it brought to me. So if I lost a fight like that, I always go into the bookies or I always go to the casino. and I'd win. So I could feel it feel myself like do you know that kind of but as life went on I went from the roulette horses slots online slots virtual chicken fights virtual dog fights real life chicken fights real life dog fights everything just so I can get a rush and a buzz about everything. It's mad, isn't it? >> Where do you f I I remember one time I was betting on on a basketball match in [ __ ] uh I can't Venezuela or something. I said there was more people in my house than actually at them. I was like an under [ __ ] 19s. But you talked about chicken fights and dog fights, the virtual ones. How like >> I'm not going to say where I I have my things, but I'm not going to say >> right. That's fair enough cuz I I I was about to say like I don't know where you'd find them. But look that that's however. But it's mad the lens that you go in the things you like if in in your stage if there was two flies going up a wall and I said that one's going to win, would you would you take that bet against me? Is that >> Yeah, if I if I was an active addiction nobody. Yeah. and I put big money on it thinking I was a big fella but I wasn't really. >> And when did you realize kind of it was becoming a problem? like what what dawned on you cuz you said you were doing for about 10 years and you were winning money and you were losing money and like said the house always wins but at what stage did you did like did you have an inkling before or was it just last year or >> I always I always knew I had a problem with it but I always I always thought I could stop by myself and I did stop by myself like I said I obviously got a year and a half but I was only early into it then but h I stopped two years ago and I was training for a fight and I got four months out of it by myself but I always knew in the back of my mind I was always going back you know, and I that's why I always knew it was a problem. Uh, and then when I when I was gambling and like I said before and when I won jackpots and jackpots jackpots, I was never satisfied. Like I won a big lump of money at one stage in my life and I brought that home and I kept that money and I always said to myself, "Oh, I can do this again. I can win a lot of money again." But when I won the exact same amount in the same the same figure, I was never happy. I always wanted more. And that's when I actually really knew that I had a problem. Like I was winning I was winning near enough nearly five five figure like jackpots. Do you know what I mean? And I got to a stage where I won exact same amount at one stage but I had it all gone in 20 minutes because I wanted to win more. >> Yeah. I would say you weren't getting the do like obviously when you hit that amount the first time you're going to get that dopamine and then after that you're it doesn't feel like the same you want you'd want to win more. And I've seen people do that as well. some of my friends have has had issues with and they it's just it's never enough. And then did you find yourself losing a lot of money that way chasing more money? >> Yeah, I I lost I lost thousands upon thousands like literally lots and lots of money. Like and I'm not proud of it, but that's just part of what it is. Like that the money is going to come back at the end of the day. If I if I I can always put do something else, but I've lost a lot of money. I've stole a lot of money. I stole money from work. I've stole money from my parents. I stole money from your sister. I stole money from me brothers. Stole money from me granddad. sold a lot of money, a lot of money just to fund my to fund my gambling. And that's just the way it was, you know, and but that's like it's when I was in the treatment, they told me it's you're not actually addicted to the gambling. It's a thinking disease that you have and you just need to get if you don't get what you want, you're you're just going to go to all ends to get what you want, get what you need. And I did like I stole it. Like I stole loads of money, man, you know, and I'm not proud of it, but that's that's the old me and that's the past and I can't think about that. But my like when I properly like I wasn't really going to talk about my rock bottom like but I I will talk about like but that's when I knew I really had a problem. What what I did the night my rock bottom is going to haunt me for the rest of my life for the rest of my life. Like I but it's not going to haunt me now. I can deal with it now. But it did haunt me. Um you know what I did to my father at home here in my own house because I couldn't he wouldn't give me my money so I can go gambling. Like that's going to that's going to be live me for the rest of my life. you know, and I'm not going to speak and get into details exactly what happened with it, but that was that was when I knew like I need to go somewhere. If I don't go somewhere, I'm either going to end up in jail or I'm going to end up dead. And I did I did try to commit suicide near the end of it. Like I did I got pissed drunk one morning. I'm on I'm on anti-depressants already for OCD as well. And you know, I'm not meant to be drinking on them. And I [ __ ] I was at a wedding the one of the lads I trained with in the gym. he was getting married and I said I knew that I knew that morning that I wasn't going to going to go come home like do you know that kind of I knew my heart and told what I was going to do like and I drank 17 points of Guinness into my car and I drove straight into a tree do you know and I one of my best me best mate was in the car me but he got out before him because he he could see that I was just going Lula like I was [ __ ] Lula and my father came down to collect me and I and I verbally abused my father and told him the [ __ ] off this and that and I just look I just wasn't well mentally I just wasn't well because of the gambling and I When I was leaving there, I was going in. I had I had a tener in my pocket. I remember this when before I crashed the car. I had a ten in my pocket. I was going in from where I was at the wedding at the venue is about a half an hour from cabin town and I was going into casino to gamble that tener so I can have money for the next day. And me piss drunk. Me piss drunk. But before I got something clicked in my brain, I was like no. And I just th I just wanted to die that day. But when I got into the treatment, when I got into treatment, they said to me that you didn't want to kill yourself. You wanted to kill the addict that was in your head. And that's the truth. Like, and today I don't want to [ __ ] die. Do you know what I mean? Like, but back then I did. You know, and that's that's that's the truth of it. And I know if I if I go back gambling, let's say I wake up tomorrow morning, I go back gambling. I have two choices. I can either go back to treatment and sort myself out again or I'll be dead in six months. And that's the reality of it. >> [ __ ] hell. I just want to say fair play to you for for saying all that as well. That's why I was very quiet and just listening intently cuz that's that's that's [snorts] a lot to say. Um, obviously this can be edited as well. So if if you do want to take it out. >> No, it's okay. >> We we we'll discuss that again. But we see people talk about like there's obviously drug addiction, drink addiction. I think gambling is just as bad because [snorts] you're sober the whole time. Like I you can only take so many drugs before you pass out or or something happens. whereas you're completely like fine and there and you're not under the influence of anything, but you you can see yourself in this and you can see this happening and you're losing your money at the time. [snorts] >> And I've seen it with my friends. They said like their stomach turns, they've lost so much money, they've lost businesses and stuff like that. But when like dur during all this, did your family kind of know you had that problem or was it something that you had hidden? H >> No, my family knew I had a problem. My uh my mother actually looked after my money for a long time to try and get me to stop gambling. But anytime I wanted money, I would have lied to her and manipulated her until I was going to get buy clothes or I was going to do this and that, but I was actually going gambling like you know. So they always knew about it like and I was on me last legs after what happened in uh before I went into the treatment and you know they gave me an ultimatum. It was like either go to treatment or get out and I was I was ready to pack my bags to get out. So, I didn't want to give up, you know, I wanted to keep going and going and going, but obviously with what happened at the wedding and that, it clicked in my head then that there was something wrong and I went and I got the help. But they they knew they they've known since I started. Well, they haven't known since I started, but they've known for the last five, six years. Like, yeah, cuz they just noticed the change in mentally. I was I was all changed. Like, you know, I was in I was in a fantasy world is what they say. I wasn't in reality. I was always I was always thinking about something that I can get from gambling. Like, I thought I was going to be a millionaire from gambling. [ __ ] Well, not a bit of me was. Do you know what I mean? I was I've been parding people on the do and that was the truth. Do you know? >> Yeah. And I think a lot of people think like that. You think like I remember putting a it was a 300 to1 bet like I had a euro on my account. I put on like 10 random teams and a one and I was like man if I put a grand on that have 300,000 and yeah so I I can see the thinking behind it. Um, but with obviously you were saying obviously you manipul manipulate them and I've seen that with people and and I've seen it with people and myself because I I have issues with addiction but that's for another day. Um, but you you make you you it turns you into a person you're not you cuz you want to get what you want and was it always and when you [snorts] look back on that now you're just like [ __ ] like how like not how did you believe because you'd make up any sort of like I've done it myself just to kind of get what you want. um that's not you as a person when you look at yourself going through that and like kind of the effect that it would have had on your family cuz sometimes it's directly or indirectly sort of way cuz you're cuz like you said you're not there mentally you're you're somewhere else. When you look back at yourself can you like are you looking at going [ __ ] like like do you not you don't wreck that's not you that's not the person and like >> what what do you think when you look back on on you at that time? look [snorts] back now like >> I was a sick person. I was a sick person. That's that's the way it is. I was a sick I was mentally sick and that's just the truth of it. Yeah. Mentally sick. Um when I look back though at the same time like look at it wasn't me. I know it wasn't me. It was my addiction. Um my addiction took control of me and there was nothing I could do about it until I hit my [ __ ] rock bottom and I just couldn't have any more of it. But I know it wasn't me. And looking back, look, there's a lot of things that I'm proud of in my addiction. You know, I was able to do I was able to spoil a lot of people in my addiction from gambling, but I was I was a bad bastard from gambling as well. Do you know what I mean? And and I was I hated myself when I was in addiction. Absolutely hated hated myself. I was calling myself names under every name under the sun. Like I was meant I was verbally abusing myself and mentally abusing myself. Do you know? But today I'm not. you know, today I can actually look myself in the mirror and like smile at myself and said, "You're doing well. You should be very proud of yourself." And that's that's just what I've got from treatment. That's what I've got from the program that's been given to me. Like, but back then, oh man, I hated myself. Absolutely hated. I didn't want to be here. Like, at the end of it, I didn't, you know, I didn't I didn't want to go through and keep living what I did and not have the help to be able to do it. Do you know that kind of like it's it's brutal. Like, it was brutal. you know, but I can look back now and I can say ah it has that happened you know it's not going to happen no more once I stay in my program once I keep doing what I have to do everything that was me once I keep on top of that see I can say to myself yeah you were there but look where you are now look at look how much you've changed in a such a short space of time like five like I'm out five clean of gambling in five months and 11 12 days now you know and from where I was to where I'm at now. It's it's like it's I'm very proud of myself like you know and people can turn around and say you're very proud of I'm very proud of you too but that doesn't make them limit it's once you're proud of yourself that's all that matters do you know? So >> yeah it's like it's like you have to make yourself happy in order sometimes to make other people happy. If you're not proud of yourself what other people say is kind of yeah you don't really care especially but you should be very proud of yourself and especially the fact that you kind of want to go on and make it aware and there was something you said and actually remains quite true. you were talking about your addiction. Uh [snorts] that the person said that you didn't want to kill yourself, you want to kill that addiction. There's a song, I don't know if you've ever heard it, it's called Hy Ren. And there's a part in that where he he's talking to his subconscious and he says, >> "You've [snorts] got to kill me you if you want to kill me." And that hit hard. That hit me hard. I looked at that and went >> I know a lot of people that feel like that. I felt like that before. When you've got that addiction there, you feel like there's no way getting rid of this unless you get rid of yourself. Um, but talk to us about uh, [ __ ] Like when you went in there, h what was like like what kind of like when you got in there, what were you expecting and what was the actual reality when you got there? >> Uh, I was expecting going to prison to be honest with you. I was [ __ ] myself. Absolutely [ __ ] myself. I can remember clear as day going up in the car that morning. Like I was [ __ ] bricks. Um, but as soon as I walked in there, I felt something that I've never felt in my life. I felt like I was welcome. Do you know what I mean? As soon as I walked, I didn't meet anybody. I just walked in the door and it was just like a weight lifted off my shoulder. So, I didn't have to walk around and be big egotistical and all this. I just it was just I just felt at home, you know, and when I got in there, like I spent two weeks in a detox center and I don't know why I spent two weeks in the detox center to be honest with you because I was in the in for gambling, but I had to do it any regardless. And, you know, I was around a lot of people, a lot of old men, people around my age then as well. And you know, I met a good a good lock of bonds in there with the lads, you know, and you know, today they're my friends. You know, I had a lot of friends before I was in, but like no friend out here two people that I've kept in kept in contact with that's actually my friends. Like, you know, when I first went into treatment and listened to God's honest truth, nobody texted me, nobody rang me, nobody sent me letters, bar two friends that I had in the outside. So, it really shows you when you're down [ __ ] Creek who actually is there for you. You know that kind of way. after getting out like I did I was meant to do a 12week program and I did a 12week program but I got to the end of week 10 and the start of week 11 and every Monday you have to write out your questions for the week and I'm not going to say here I'm not going to talk [ __ ] like I was a I was acting the [ __ ] when I was in treatment you know that kind of I I didn't want to fully surrender to it I always thought I could leave and be I could still do it but I could do it in moderation I wasn't not going to be as bad as I was but I got to the end of week 10 and the start of week heaven and I read out me questions and that was grand. I got back into the Bay house and we were all sitting down. There was 60 lads, 60 of us in the sitting room watching Bad Teacher because there was no women about we couldn't do so. That was the only thing we could watch. Do you know what I mean? For us to have a bit of [ __ ] sanity or whatever. And I remember I got up at the couch and I went up to me room. I got moved upstairs at the start of week 11 and because when you get when you get close to your to your finish, they put you upstairs by yourself to get just so you can have peace and all that, you know. >> [snorts] >> When I got upstairs, I took out me book and I started reading the questions for the start of the week. And I lay in me bed and I read in my head the first question in my head. And I didn't it didn't understand me. But when I started reading it out loud to myself before I could finish the sentence, I started I bushed out crying. I cried for 12 minutes straight on my bed. And I remember waking up the next morning. I went down to my counselor. I says, "I'm not going home." And he said to me, "What are you talking?" I said, "I'm not going home. If I leave here next week, I'm going to gamble. I'm going to drink. I'm going to do everything. I'm not going home. I'm not ready to go home. So, they went and had a big meeting and they and they turned around. They said to me, "Well, you can stay." And I go, "Yeah, well, how do you how long can I stay for?" Said, "We'll give you an extra six weeks." So, I did an extra four weeks at the end. I did six weeks. So, I did I was meant to do 18 weeks, but I did 16 weeks. And I was only meant to do a 12week program. That's all it is. It's a 12-week program for gambling, for drink, but then you do your drug program then as you go on. Like, but I was never involved in the drug like, you know, I never got really addicted. I never really liked it. But it was for me when I was in there, it was me that turned around. Like they will say to you that you can come and you can stay longer if you want before you could actually have knowledge of that. Like they'll see how you're progressing and all that. But I was I was lying to them when I was in there. Like I was saying, I'm fine. Yeah. Getting on well, but I wasn't. But that's when it hit me properly. Then that night, that night I just I bushed out crying. I was crying my I was roaring and shouting, crying and crying because I knew if I left I was going back to the same situation I was in. So the fact that they can give me that and that was the best thing that ever happened to me. Like I could sit there and I fully surrendered fully surren I got the edge of my bed that night and they're always telling us get on your knees every morning when you wake up and before you go to bed and ask a higher power of your own understanding to give you help throughout the day and I got on my bed I got on my knees that night after when I was crying and I and I asked for I closed my hands and blessed myself and I said serenity prayer and I said someone help me and as soon as I said that it all just changed. It all changed like it my whole mentality shift and everything. I was just like wow I was fighting it so hard for so long so I could always when I left when I left keep gambling but I could do it moderation but now like I just for some reason after doing all that it's all the compulsion everything's gone. It's all it's just left me like you know but it's there is days where I'm still here and and it's tough and it is tough like but I can now deal with everything like and I and I was very grateful for the counselor I met when he was in there. He was exactly like me. Now he wasn't involved in fighting or like that but he was involved in a lot of Harland and all that and he managed a lot of Harland teams and he said he had the same brain as me for the addict wise and he was I was the double of him basically for addiction and I was very lucky to meet him in there because only for him I'd be back either gambling or I'd be dead and that's just a straightup fact cuz he's helped me so much and he still helps me even today I'm out seven weeks and he rings me every day like you know what I mean to see how I'm getting on and that's the power of it like you know just everyone wants to see everybody doing well when you leave there and when I since I've left like a lot of people have relapsed, you know, but you know, I'm still here. I'm happy and I and I'm staying on track, you know. So, [sighs] >> yeah. >> No, that was so I just listening to that is kind of [ __ ] hitting me in the in the field here a little bit as well. But no fair paychecks like you said that was obviously your Eureka moment where you realize when I go back you can't there's the people can be casual whether it's drink drugs gambling they can be casual go in put 10 bet and go and have a couple of drinks and then there's other people that that can't do that but like fair play to you for like you realizing and then wanting to stay on cuz that you got to that moment then and realize yeah [snorts] I like I haven't been taking the ser like I want to get back out and gamble but then you realize no [ __ ] especially with all the all the mental stuff that you've been through but um [snorts] Okay. So, we were talking about obviously like you wanted to stay on longer uh because you realized at that stage that you were just going to go back and be the same. What were those extra weeks like for you? Did you then really kind of put yourself full force into into what you were doing and and how did you feel as a person after that moment? Like what was the feeling? Sorry. What you let out a lot of emotions. What was the feeling? How did you feel in yourself after that moment? >> Uh I felt very proud of myself because it was a decision I had to make for myself. Do you know? And that was the first time I made a decision that it would matter in my life, do you know? And when I made that decision, I uh like I said, I got down on my hands and knees and I prayed and I and I hoped something would would help me. And it did help me. And I just felt I just felt a massive relief. It was it was amazing like and that that's what I chase now every day is that dopamine hit from the relief from my higher power. And I get that every day like you know. So it was it was amazing. And then when I told my counselors like the my counselor and the person that was the head of the house like he to come up to me and said well done like you you needed to do it for yourself and we're going to let you stay. And you know for the fact that then that them for them to have the bit of trust in me and believe what I was saying like that was that was brilliant like because a lot of people didn't believe anything I was saying when I was in an active addiction cuz I was a compulsive layer as well you know so I had I had the backing of it and it was my one it was my one chance to to change my life and and I took it with poor hands like you know and I haven't looked back since. I have not looked back since then. Like and I remember that day and I'll remember that night for the rest of my life. Like I'm going to be in recovery for the rest of my life until the day I die and I'm going to remember that moment because that's the moment it all changed for me. Like so you know and yeah I I can imagine just the sense of relief and and stuff like that. Um and then kind of when you're realizing and then like I I can't even imagine what that feeling is like. when when you're in there obviously do they get you prepared to go back to because obviously one of the when you're away whether it be for whatever the addiction is like you're away from everything you can't access it do they build like habits and ways for you to function outside and then the then you translated it um what was it like being reintroduced back into the real world >> uh coming back into the it was it was weird like I said I felt like I was locked up in prison I was away but I could leave whenever I wanted you know that kind of I could leave whenever I wanted, but I didn't want to leave at the end of it. But it was weird. It was weird coming back home in the car and sitting with my parents and actually having a proper conversation with them, you know. It was actually just telling them about how I was, how it how it felt and them actually sitting down and actually wanting to listen to me because I wasn't telling a lie, do you know? Um, it was weird at the start like it took it took me two weeks to actually fit myself back into the reality basically, you know, back home here. uh back with [snorts] I actually had did a lot of stuff like I had to go into my old job and tell him look I need to take time off you know and just this and that. So yeah, it it was weird at the start, but it's it it slowly came in and you know and ever since I gave her the chance like I didn't rush on, you know, that's was don't rush on whenever you leave. Just do it by your pace. Do it as the pace you're doing in here. And that's what I did and everything just fall back into place. Like it's it's brilliant like you know and but when I was in there like they all they they get you ready for for leaving like they'll sort out where you're going to stay. if you want to go and get a council house cuz when you're in there you're on sick pay or whatever you're on they can try and they can get sort you out with a council house and all that you know and I did I applied for a council I didn't [ __ ] get it you know I'm still at home here now my parents but I've applied again for another council house so hopefully I can get it that out of that like and you know I can start living on my own two feet like they just they take away the child mindset and put in another mind you need to stand on your own two feet and you just need to live life by yourself you know and you can't rely on anybody else it's just Dude, like it's your life. If you want to rely on anybody else, you go back to it the whole way you were thinking. So that's what they kind of introduced and they would bring you back to society a small bit like they'd give you back your phone that give you all that carry on just so you can start mixing again like and it was good that way. Like but I never got my phone because I didn't stay on for a good length of time as some of the lads did but a lot of lads did get their phones back and a lot of lads went into transition houses as well. There's one in Dublin, Gway, Nuri, there's everywhere like you know and you can stay there for 6 months and then that slowly get put back into society. But I did I did my time and I was ready to leave on week 16 and you know I I just knew but it was weird at the start. It was weird but it just takes time to get yourself back in society you know. So I just wouldn't rush that and for anybody that's going through treatment just don't rush it you know and and and listen when you're in there that's and stay away from the women when you're in there too. I was [ __ ] hell, man. Brutal acts. You know what I mean? And but I can I can admit all this now. Like if I was still in my addiction, I I I I'd lie to it straight up. But I, you know, just straight up, you know, that's that's what it's given me. It's just given me honesty, you know, be honest to myself and everyone else around me will will listen to me, you know, and that's the best thing I've got from it. Like so, but they do they do introduce you back into society. They do it slowly like but they will. >> Yeah. You were saying there about uh like lying to yourself. That's another thing you see in people is you try and tell yourself like you're going to win this money or you going to do that being out of that mindset. How does it feel? How do you feel if you don't mind me asking mentally? Because like obviously you talked about like wanting to to not be alive and stuff like that. Talk to us about your mindset now. And how do you feel? Like I say you feel like a brand new person, do you? >> I feel like I was reborn. Do you know? I just feel like but that's just for today. Like that I could that could all change tomorrow. Do you know what I mean? Like I could wake up tomorrow and I could be back in the old mindset that I was as soon as I get out of bed. I just need to check that for myself and I need it I need that my higher power to help me with that and he he does help me like my higher power is Jesus. Do you know a lot of people like it's a spiritual program but it's nothing got to do with with Jesus or holiness. It's a spiritual program of your understanding like you can have a higher power or whoever it is. A tree could be your higher power. Do you know that kind of way? But mine is Jesus. And if I ever find myself going back into the old way of thinking or bringing up the old behaviors, I just ask for a bit of help and it's all shifted. Do you know that kind of way? And that's just the best thing about like and how I'm feeling now. I feel very good. I had a [ __ ] weekend. I'm not going to talk talk [ __ ] I did have a [ __ ] [ __ ] weekend. But you know, I I I did what I had to do for myself to keep myself away from a from a gamble and a drink. And I did do that. And you know, I'm paying the rewards. I'm reaping the rewards. I mean, because I'm [ __ ] I feel brilliant now. You know, I I don't have anything going on in me head. My head is just quiet. And that's just the way it is. Like and there's one thing that I learned in treatment when I was in there is and there's one thing that I want to keep on for the rest of my life for as long as I can. There's one thing you get out of treatment and people be like, "Oh yeah, you get your family back." You don't. You get your peace of mind. And that is it's [ __ ] brilliant. Like it's it's something that I never ever ever want to lose. Like my mind has been a [ __ ] a washing machine since the age of since the age of 13. My mind isn't like that anymore. But there is days where it comes like that. But that could be just for an hour or so and it's lifted then you know like stinking thinking that's what it is. That's what the addiction is. It's just stinking thinking. It's a thinking disease. But once you sort out everything and once you get down to and be honest with people and be honest with your counselors like when I went in there Dave straight up I I I didn't tell anybody what exactly. I didn't tell people exactly what was going on in my head. I didn't tell them the full story. But when I had that spiritual awakening on week 10, the start of week 11, that's when it all changed for me. And I went down to my counselor and I told him everything. I told a stranger everything I've struggled with from the age of 13. That's when I started to struggle with life. From the age of 13 to 26, I told him everything. And when everything was gone, it was all gone. I don't know what happened. It was just my head just slowed down. It was absolutely brilliant. Like I didn't have to hold in anymore. And if if I ever struggle with that like that, I just come and just speak to my parents, speak to members, speak to ring my counselor. He rings me every morning. I ring him, you know, I go to meetings every night. I I do meetings six six nights a week. Like, you know, I do two on a Tuesday, do two on a Thursday. Like, that's what I have to do now for the rest of my life. Like, until I can get strong enough to go back into my fighting and back into everything. But it's the peace of mind that I have now. That's it's that's something I never I never want to lose. Like, but I could lose it tomorrow and that's just the way it is. But today, I don't want to lose. I haven't lost it yet, but I could lose it before I go to bed tonight. Do you know that kind of way? That's just the way addiction is. you know 100%. One question as well with with the phones not having the phones and all that would do you think because I find sometimes I I find sometimes obviously I do it for the media stuff as well but I find I'm glued to my I looked at my my screen time one day it was like 8 hours and I would have been like I would have been in a truck I would have been like doing posts and stuff like that I would have been passenger but I was like man that's that's a lot of time. Do you find that helped clear your space cuz I think a lot of us now are are could be like if it's not gambling like so you're going to try and replace it with some a phone or something. Did that help clear your head? And what was it like having kind of no contact? I know you get letters, but >> Yeah. >> Did Did that process Was that one of the things that you think might have helped clear your head? >> Uh yeah, what definitely would have had a massive part to play it. All right. Yeah. But like the first couple of weeks it was tough. I was always writing from my pocket to get me phone out like every five minutes. Like I'd be addicted to my phone as well like you know. But after a while that that that habit kind of shift sub sh sub sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh sh shifted. Sorry I got [ __ ] flip flop in my mouth. and it all changed, you know, but when I got out of treatment, I know that's another [ __ ] thing. I got out of track, I haven't got off the phone since. So, that habit picked up again, like, do you know that kind of way? So, I just need to I need to get off my phone again for just for my own head, for my peace as well. Like, you know, and there's a lot of [ __ ] around social media, like social media is fake as [ __ ] Like, do you know what I mean? And there's a lot of stuff around gambling on social media, especially Instagram, Tik Tok, and all that. And, you know, I can see all that now and it doesn't bother me, you know? It doesn't really trigger me anymore. like but if it does trigger me I can I can turn around and talk to somebody about it like but [snorts] yeah the phone without a phone for 16 weeks it was good it was very good um the only thing you did miss was you could have rang your parents you could have rang your brothers like that's the only thing you miss on the outside like but other than that it was good peace yeah it was really good piece I actually if I could now I throw my phone away but you know I need my phone for things like as you know so yeah >> yeah it it's like that I wear phones I find myself like and then I feel like even if my phone's not pockets like I feel a fake vibration or something and like was that my phone and I said I ain't go I going mad but there was another question I want to ask you you were talking about you can leave at any stage in there that you said um up until that when you had your kind of moment that time why didn't you leave is it because you just wanted to kind of do it to appease your parents to to make them happy because of the ultimatum because you said you wanted to go back like you thought you always going to go back gambling so why didn't you leave at any stage was it to keep them happy or did was there a bit of hope that it was going to help you do you or do you >> No, I I did try to leave. I tried to leave on my cave uh at 10 half 10 on Monday night, I tried to leave. Um you could walk out, it doesn't matter, but at half 10 at night, it's kind of their responsibility to keep you there until the next morning because it's all dark and you don't really know where you're going. H but I I my addiction was playing up in me and I said, "You're not going to keep me here. I'm not in jail. I can eat whenever the [ __ ] I want. So give me my phone. I'm gone." So, I rang my parents and my parents were talking to me and his mother was like, "Why did you just stay asleep tonight and let me know how you feel in the morning? If you want to go home in the morning, you can go home in the morning." But, uh, I went to bed and I woke up the next morning. I just felt like an idiot, you know? I felt like a [ __ ] idiot. And I was like, "No, I'm not going home. Like, I I'll give it another another couple of weeks." And that's what I did. And then week 11 happened and that's when the spiritual awakening happened for me. Like, you know, so I was lucky. like you know my my uh facility are trying to get me to stay you know he was trying to get me to stay like he's been through the treatment center three times like and he said if you leave here you're going to come back like and I like I'm not coming back you know I'll die before I come back here and that was just the way my head was thinking like you know I always want like it's mad to think like that it's pure insanity it is insanity like it's just not not thinking right but I was very lucky my mother answered the phone that night and she kind of get kept me there just for a couple hours and when I woke up The next morning I just I just knew I had to stay for another while. So yeah, I suppose me mother would have kept me in that night. All right. Yeah. But after that it was just me. It was me. It was me all the way. Like nobody knew about me staying on. I told my parents I was staying on. They were like, "Why are you staying on for you're finished?" I says, "I'm not finished yet." And I stayed like so. No, it's it's good obviously that you did stay because obviously three weeks later you you had that moment and and like uh the guy from the course said, chances are you probably would have been back like at some stage cuz I I say they've seen it. But look, I really want to thank you for you've been so honest and so open um about it and like I'm sorry that you've had to go through that, but I'm so It sounds weird cuz I don't really know you that well, but I'm proud to see that you were able to to do it and stick it out and and admitting you have a problem is the first step. And then you you've done everything from there. So, but is there anything you'd like to say before you go? Any any any words of advice or is there anything you would like to say or anyone you'd like to thank? >> Yeah. Anyone that's struggling, you know, anyone that's struggling just like there's a big stigma about men not talking. A lot of men men commit suicide from addiction. You know, I learned that when I was in there. Like there's a big massive stigma about men not talking. And no worry about a female. They can talk. Do you know what I mean? You can't you can barely get them to stop talking, but they'll talk. But men, they don't talk. You know, just speak up. Like if you're struggling with anything, just speak up. Like you're not on your own. Like there's loads of people in this world that are struggling with addiction. There's loads of people like your best friend could be struggling with addiction. Speak up and talk. Like you're not on your own. Like and I suppose when I I was like that. I was a person that didn't like to talk, you know? And then I only started really talking whenever I started kickboxing and all. I got a bit of confidence and I could speak. And if anyone ever said that, you know, I was I always thought, "Oh yeah, but I'll [ __ ] you up if you talk talk [ __ ] to me." Like that's just the way I was thinking, you know. But just anyone that's anyone that's struggling just speak up. um save yourself from from hurt you know and save save yourself from a dangerous dangerous road because it is a dangerous road and at the end of the day the only outcome if you don't go and speak up or you come and you're going to die like you know straight up you will die do you know and that's just the outcome like that's the worst outcome like you could go to prison for addiction reasons for getting your fix whatever it is robbing someone for fixes and all that but the end outcome is you're going to die like eventually you will die they will eventually take you and that's what addiction wants to do. It just wants to take you away from everything. So yeah, anyone just struggling, just speak up. Especially males, especially young men. You know, I started at a young age gambling um and it ruined my life. But I've got my life back in track now and I'm rebuilding. I'm rebuilding it slowly and everything's starting to fall back in place and you can too. Like so just don't you're not on your own. Speak up and go and get help. And I just want to thank I want to thank yourself Dave for letting me come on here and and speak and tell my story parts of my story to so to some people that like this could help someone you know that kind of way that's struggling just really really struggling as a rock bottom and doesn't feel like there's a way out. There is a way out you know and you're not on your own. So I want to thanks thank Kir as well you know they saved my life they installed a program into my brain into my head now that I have to follow every day and if I don't follow it then I'm just [ __ ] So, um, yeah, Ker is is is going to be in my heart for the rest of my life and it's going to be in my head and I'm forever grateful for it. I'm forever grateful for the life I have now, like, you know, and you know, no matter how dark it is, there's always sun at the end. There's always sun at the end of the tunnel. You know, that kind of way. You can always do whatever you have to do, like, you know, and it's just just do it for yourself. Don't do it for anyone else. Do it for yourself because if you don't do it for yourself, you're always going to end up back in the same situation. Just save yourself from death. Do you know what I mean? There's a lot more to this world and a lot more to life than addiction. And once you get in recovery and and just start doing what you have to do for yourself, you start enjoying life again. And I'm I'm doing that. Like, you know, I just need to get back fighting now. I [ __ ] missed fighting, but I need to get back at that [ __ ] Like, you know, I haven't fought in a year, but that's what I need. Like, that's what that recovery is going to give me is getting back fighting and back competing. And that's what I'm excited for, you know? So, yeah, that's that's really it, Dave. I just want to thank you, Dan, and I wish you all the luck as well, you And I'm always here for anyone ever wants to talk about that and struggling. I'm always here. My phone's always open. Give me a ring, give me a text, whatever. >> I'm always here for people like So, >> yeah. >> Yeah. No, 100%. Hopefully, you get back fighting soon and our next interview then will be before a fight back to my usual kind of forte. And look, I want to thank you for being so open and honest about everything and talking about it kindly cuz it's like you're quite comfortable to talk about, but I I I can imagine what it's like to cuz when you think these things and you've done them and then you kind of speak to them and then you're like you kind of get the reality of it. But it's been fantastic. Like I said, if this helps one person, job is done, you know, way. So look, thank you. Have a good night and I will talk to you soon. >> Lovely Dave. Cheers, man. I appreciate every bit of it.