IN DEPTH | EPISODE 18 | WILL FLEURY

Ringkasan

David sits down with Irish Professional MMA fighter Will Fleury to chat about his journey so far, and what's next for him.

Transkrip (youtube_captions)

foreign [Music] today um I've seen the pfl had a fantastic Victory last night so we're going to circle back kinda two is creating the ins and outs the ups and downs and highs and lows so thank you for your time today how are you well good yeah perfect so we're going to go back to the very beginning like when when did you start MMA and then why did you start MMA um I started MMA in 2010 and the story I always give is like I broke my foot playing rugby in New York um like that is how I got into it so I started doing boxing for work it was the arch I crossed the arch and I was told that the best thing I could do was um box in Fort work to rebuild the muscles in my Arch to get it back right because I I didn't get the surgery um and uh yeah basically I was told like do this but as soon as I was involved in it because I played rugby all up until then and I played probably from like nine and I was 21 at that stage and I was still playing that's how I ended up breaking forward and I'd still kind of planned on going back to like fairly intensive playing rugby again um but once I got into flight and I was like okay look this is just you you only rely on yourself and if you're going to put in a shitload of effort you're going to get better so I'd like I thought like I kind of felt like once I found something like that I was going to get massively hooked into it and it was only a matter of time until Combat Sports became a thing with me like uh so I went down to the boxing clinic and they were like sure it was physio down there at the time and he was the guy who was rehabbing my foot and they had a cage in the gym and I was like are you doing MMA he was like yeah we've a guy coming over from America who's going to teach wrestling and I thought right this is it now um so I went there like as soon as that was Justin Robin's and as soon as he came over then I was just training there non-stop like five days a week straight away kind of thing and was full on into it and you know I thought I was going to be a world champion in a year or two like you know how did you find the transition going from that to that was it like you said because you've got only yourself there's no one that can let you down that was that was that what really went right like you said if I get really good at this and but how did you take it was it like were you ever even interested in it before like yeah yeah yeah yeah um so like my like I was raised on stories and my grandfather been a boxer and all this type of things so like I never met him and his name with Will flurry as well and you know he was kind of like this [ __ ] legendary figure as I was growing up so I always kind of wanted to Aspire to be that kind of a you know like that guy is my idol but I didn't even know him you know what I mean um and I kind of think that I probably like I boxed a tiny bit when I was younger and but I didn't have the discipline for it at that stage I was like 12 13. I woke up he was a team sport so it was more crack and it was more like it was more tangible you had a game every weekend and you like if you were good your mates recognized you were good it was that kind of like there was a reward system within it whereas like if I was boxing I was just training there wasn't a flight there wasn't coming up so I fell out of it a little bit too easily like because I didn't kind of have like I didn't see it going somewhere for me like um but then once I found him like so I was a fan of MMA from about 2003 2004. I saw a lot of flights on Bravo uh back in the day like that channel yeah yeah so I think it was like I don't know UFC 40 something or one of those was the first ones I watched and then by the time Matthew used the voice crazy for and I was like proper hooked and I was following all the events that was kind of like a big enough fan and then I would have kind of like had periods where I was real intensively into it and periods where I was less into it but like trending number May back then wasn't the thing you know there was nowhere like I didn't know anywhere in Ireland that was doing it this is like 2005 six kind of you know seven and like you know if I was a teenager and I could have trained somewhere or I knew it was somewhere to train definitely would have been there but I had no clue with time like you know probably could have used Google and found out somewhere but didn't and like just kept playing rugby so then from there like I was uh he said it was 21 when that happens like when did you end up making your amateur debut like and what kind of like is is contrasting is so different now that I'm just saying what was it like then what was it like going to make your amateur debut at that stage like so it took a while like as in I wanted we were like the gym I was in in corked and may Clinic uh we were pretty serious about like maintaining this really good amateur record we had in the gym at the time so flight amateur Doss was a huge deal it wasn't like I'll go in there get better get used to competition it was like no this your life this is what's going to Define you you show up your smash coins you win you know um so it's a much more like you live and die by the result of this fight kind of a buzz and like you know I think that was the General culture around the amateur scene at the time like you know it was like this guy's the guy this guy's the guy you know and it was kind of like you're the Irish Champion if you're a good amateur like it was how you felt like because there wasn't that many of us back then um so like you know it was a huge deal to me to fight so I left it for like I was supposed to have one now I did a couple of like no HR competitions and MMA leagues and that type of thing um and then I did a few tournaments but it was about a year and a half of training before I fought even which even back then would have been a good while like now I know even like young Lads these days they're putting in a [ __ ] on effort and they're probably trying in two years three years a lot of time before they fought and the standard that was so much higher like if you go back and you look at my first amateur fight and you look at the skills that I had and you look at a live training 10 12 weeks now they probably have a better skill set like right because just the stand like you know the guys they're going to be training with have so much more knowledge so like they come in they're already like dipped into this pool of knowledge if you get me just by being around people who are that much above them whereas like we were figuring it out like yeah you know we had like Justin Robbins coming over and he'd fought the wec and he fought all these places but like it was kind of one guy so we were trying to get as much out of him as we could it's not like every one of your training Partners knew all these movements and you just absorbed it like yeah it was like we were pulling all of this out of one guy's brain like and it wasn't really work like it didn't proliferate as much as it could have if you know what I mean yeah and then it was kind of just us driving it so it was like myself here on daily James Brennan um and we like the three of us were kind of just constantly in there trying to be [ __ ] hot trying to like learn as much as we could from each other but should we just show up and beat the [ __ ] out of each other every day and that was it it was basically like right I looked at this on a video like I saw a Randy Couture doing this okay I'm gonna go in and try and do that and smash it and if it worked it'd be like oh what was that show me that thing like you know and so we kind of taught ourselves a little bit and then we check Hector came over a little bit after all that and Jake was like he got signed to the UFC while he was with us as well like so he was trained in Cork when he got signed because he came over he fought with cage Wars once or twice um over in Jordan and then somewhere else I think he fought in Cork and a Jordan and then after that he got signed to UFC uh so like we were trying to win him a good bit as well and he was kind of more our size like he was a welterweight and at the time I was a middleweight and like we were kind of similar and off bills so uh like it was great to be able to train with him and kind of see that standard of like okay like you know this isn't some superhuman like you know we're able to do [ __ ] like you know we're like I can not hold my own hair but I'm doing okay and I'm only three years trying and like so it's like a couple of years now I could be smashing these Lads like um I know you like myself in Quran especially were very much kind of like yeah we're gonna do this like two of us are going to make it to UFC it's gonna be like so we had that belief early we just didn't have the level of knowledge we needed like yeah and then but like you're saying obviously you didn't have it then it would there was like a there's a lot of guys around your time as well and you can see now like you're you yourself are given knowledge then to the amateurs in your gym like ye basically opened the door for what there is now you among others yeah but like I don't see myself as that person if you get me like I said look I'm still involved right and I'm like I've learned a shitload over the years and I see the guys and how quickly they've like gotten much better than like you know I look at where I was after four or five years and I look at where they are after four or five years I'm like [ __ ] they're so much better but I'm like well I'm still [ __ ] better than all econs and and like you're not gonna overtake me until I'm done here so like the level now is benefiting everybody you know so like okay they're coming out faster but that's making me better too yeah so it's like the overall like the speed of the whole thing is increased and the speed at which you can get better is increased but like that doesn't mean I can't keep getting better and better too so like not to think of like say even likes Muhammad there like friend with Muhammad a shitload the last few years has kind of been like okay this kid's like [ __ ] 17 18 19 and unbelievably good um but it's kind of like right I think how good he's gonna be when he's 30. oh it's gonna be way better than I'll ever be right but Mia 35 is going to be better than him at 23. she got me yeah so like that's the way I'm looking at it now it's like I'm gonna be better than Ollie until I'm gone yeah yeah and then you can overtake that but until I'm gone you're not getting a better me like yeah but like I said also benefits you because if these lights are coming up so quickly and especially at the the heavier weight classes obviously you've got the likes to Johnny uh Johnny walk and stuff like that but if these amateurs are getting up and they're getting to the such a high level there's more bodies than for yourself yeah to train even like say Carol smallen's been around a lot recently and like looking at how quickly he's improved how quickly he's gone really good it's genuinely like I know it sounds like should I talk but like it's [ __ ] inspiring to watch a guy come in and progress that quickly and be that good it's kind of like right if you can get that good in a year and a half for two years how [ __ ] good could I get if I really applied myself and still had that same [ __ ] hunger and that same level of like oh [ __ ] I need to be this much better at that so I kind of try and use people like that to remind me like here yeah you think you're getting incrementally better every day and you're looking for these [ __ ] half percents it's like no get a shitload better you know like try like you can't increase your skill set a hell of a lot by putting in a lot of effort in a short period of time so why don't you just do that on a regular basis like you know and like you watch other people doing it you're like yeah yeah that can be done so just do that like yeah you just have to basically apply yourself and just and have that same level of hunger because like he's hungry as well because he's getting his ass whooped on a daily basis right I'm now the ass Whopper so it's like there's less like I'm doing pretty good you know no you're not there's somebody out there you're just not feeling it on a daily basis like yeah so it's kind of having that like whoa that guy is out there come on yeah feel that your heart feel that [ __ ] anxiety in there like yeah have that in the back of your mind knowing that's what like a chase that and Chase that [ __ ] heart I'm like look what I will say is I've always been the most driven [ __ ] in the room like you know if I look around where my drone went like I'm the cycle who's kind of driving the whole thing constantly right yeah but there's been times where I've kind of sat in my Laurels and been like yeah I'm good you know I'm doing all right like yeah whereas that attitude has kind of prevented me from getting as good as I could have been and I feel like I've wasted time with that if you get me as if I've let things slip by me and I've let like if I look at myself four or five years ago I'm kind of like you're a shy finder and you taught you were decent back then that's embarrassing look you know what I mean like that like it kind of upsets me to think that I thought I was half the East and at that period of time and now we've been still I have these thoughts of being like ah you're all right at that like you're not doing too bad like and I know in a couple years I'm going to look back and be like you want a piece of [ __ ] that guy was terrible like you know that guy had no skill set like yeah you know and like that's where I want to be in a couple of years yeah but it's kind of like put in the effort to be that good now and get there in a couple of years like yeah that's actually what you just said I'm I'm gonna actually touch on that later in your pro because that was actually pay for the moment in your pro that mindset but throughout the amateur like what kind of shows was there around what are the show compared to like what there is now and how did you arrange fights and like it was like pretty much true short a lot of the time um and it was a smaller scene so like it was you know Andy Ryan and Battlezone um short Ranchos yeah my clinic amateur fight nights and all that type of thing uh trying to think of all it so I fought over in England like I lived in London for a little while so like while um okay [ __ ] I'm trying to think of the silver eye ocean I fall on as well um and I actually two yeah actually both times I fought and were ocean I was living in London and I flew back home so the DI Murray clinic on temperature flight night I had three of those I think then Battle Zone than the Royal ocean cards and then I fought on Warrior Challenge MMA over London and then my last amateur flight was Roy ocean as well and yeah so that was kind of it was uh a lot of just like Seymour's not big so you know you just kind of text a lot like our Facebook message off somebody be like do you want to fight this guy then you'll be like yeah Grant there was no looking into it there was no like game plan and it was just you showed up a fight because I wouldn't like it so like you know I would have known say my last flight was Lee bomber and I was supposed to fight him a few times so I would have known him like his game pretty well and I would have like trained [ __ ] specifically to beat him but it wasn't like you know you're gonna research the [ __ ] out of the guy and you're gonna I'm like you know if you're healthy yeah okay cool let's do it you know there was never a question of like oh there's a fight available are you going to take of course you're [ __ ] taking it like you know I said yeah there just was not many opportunities so like a card might come along once every three or four months if you didn't [ __ ] take it you're gonna be sitting on the sideline again for another three months like so like you know there was no like oh I'm not gonna fight that guy now if you've got any name on a [ __ ] cheat you were gonna do it like you know so yeah so because like now it seems like every second every third weekend there's a show like yeah what do you make of that now compared to do you wish you had had that yeah sort of but like look it was just different and we came up in a different time and maybe in a way that gave us more time until we didn't have the [ __ ] skills really but like if we had had them it would have given us more time to develop those skills and like compete once every two or three months um but in another way like I think the way it is right now is probably a lot better and a lot like more conducive to developing that competition mentality if you can go and compete every couple of weeks if you want to be damn good at something you can be damned good at it like the best way to do something is or best way to get good at something is keep doing it so like the likes of Gary already there who can just fight flight again he's gonna be glass he's gonna have that competition mindset down you know you look at all these Labs like and John's consistently saying this type of [ __ ] of like if you look at like you know guys who've wrestled three or four hundred times guys with like three or four hundred amateur fights from boxing or whatever it is they just have a competition mindset doesn't phase you and like in a way I I kind of like I don't look back and go like I wish I had that because I did play a [ __ ] load of really intense rugby games that meant the world to me where like I thought I was gonna like live and die based on those results where I would [ __ ] myself before the game where I was really like everything is about Saturday you know Saturday is the day that defines you like and then like you know sometimes you won't win and some are like and you'd feel like oh well I'm still alive now I feel like [ __ ] but like I'm here I think it's really important to go through those events yeah so rugby was kind of my thing through that so like I felt in a way like I didn't miss out on the developing of that competition mindset but I probably missed out on some of like the technical [ __ ] within fighting if you notice but like if we had trained like or if we'd fought less and been able to train high level technique at an earlier stage in my career I wouldn't have been bothered at all like because I think it was more just like I needed the details mentally I never felt like I need to fight more often it's like ah [ __ ] it I'm I'm okay with competition I really like I have a good attitude towards competition and I always kind of felt like that even like my first amateur fight I was I wouldn't say like I was definitely hyped up but I was like yeah I know how to go in there and fight I know how to go in there and compete you know competing is competing no matter what it is like but like if you're used to competing at a high level doing something and you're used to being kind of nervous and Performing under pressure you're it's the same shape basically you know what I mean yeah because I like how you said you got the you got the competition mindset from the Ruby when you come in because you see a lot of Fighters and I see the amateur fight as well it's not even the fight they could be really skilled but it's like that it's the competition it's the day of it's the it's it's the the waiting around for your fight getting your hand wraps stuff like that so you already had that mentality so look it's a good bit more intense when you fight especially the first few times like Lord I'm not going to pretend that like oh I wasn't phased at all going into my first year after oh [ __ ] you know it's proper like [ __ ] you know and like it's fight or flight yeah and I'm not gonna lie I had those thoughts of like oh I'm just gonna do this this once right and then never again you know never again like how am I like you know even like you kind of look at yourself you're like how did I [ __ ] why did I sign myself up for this [ __ ] this [ __ ] like what am I doing what sort of idiom am I that I ended up in this position in life where I've like chosen to do this at a weekend where I could be off enjoying myself or doing something like but yet I'm here deciding to like go in and like smash him up [ __ ] some water lad in my Underpants in front of a lot of people do you know what I mean you're like I'm [ __ ] in the head like what is wrong with me and I had those thoughts but then it was kind of like you win and you're like oh this is [ __ ] unreal it's the best thing I've ever done I can't wait to do this again it's amazing how like the the Peaks and valleys that you're you're going through those thoughts but you you still kept going like you had but to realize like their moments they're like they're 20 minutes before the flight when you're [ __ ] it and you're like why have I put myself under all this much pressure for what like there's no reward here I'm not making a living out of this you know so it's logical at that point in time to question that correct when you're about to go in him yeah it makes [ __ ] sense it's kind of like what the [ __ ] am I doing why am I doing this and then afterwards you feel all that enjoyment and relief and the release and then you're like and eventually like what's one of the biggest things this kind of one of the world is already party but like also true things I found in martial arts martial arts have made me like me more and that's really invaluable so like I respect who I am because I do that I'm the guy who chose to [ __ ] show up I'm the guy who like didn't [ __ ] let fear get the better of him that's huge to me like you know once you've instilled out your character and you've overcome that thing of like oh [ __ ] I felt like I wanted to run and trust me every con feels like they want to run at some point like you know when like you don't like if I'm going in flight now that doesn't hit me because you know I'm [ __ ] you know I'm well well prepared for it I've been dealing with this situation for months coming up and it's like I've got all this [ __ ] prepared like the nerves hit you but that whole like what am I doing here thing doesn't hit you but I've gone through a lot and I know what that is and I faced it and I like me more because I'm the guy who went and did it anyway I'm not like and that stays with you and even like look I say I don't feel that anymore but it's there somewhere it'll be easy to stop doing this it'll be easy to not chase this as hard but because I'm the guy who does Chase it that hard I like will you know what I mean yeah and I wonder like and this the thing that scares the [ __ ] on me more than anything is like when I stop having this thing to chase What's it gonna be and am I going to become some better old [ __ ] because that's the last thing in the world where it's like [ __ ] you could end up being one of these guys who's sitting at the back of the puppy like I could have been not or I could have with some bitter [ __ ] those people you hate to listen there hate to end up stuck beside us like no I'm not gonna let myself be like I like so it's like right whatever comes next I have to chase that just as hard and I have to respect me for chasing it that hard and as long as I like me the rest of the life will sort itself out like you know and that martial arts has done that for me like and I didn't find that quite like this before not you know yeah because that's what I get from talking to a lot of Fighters programs whatever they turn out they say between uh the belief in themselves uh the fact that they show up and have to work for what like you're not given anything in life that you have to earn it um so it's actually good that you went through that and like I said there's still something somewhere and you're somewhere before you go to fight obviously but it's you've gone through it so much that it's it's so tiny it's my new I'd say you don't even notice it but it's like I saw it like when I need an amateur lights to come to me and they're like oh I'm nervous about that it's like okay ask yourself those questions it's good to be nervous you know what are you afraid of and it's like well he could have this or he could do that okay what are you gonna do what's your reaction and it's like I've been through those questions in my own head in bed a thousand times like it's like what if he does this what's going to be your answer and it's like these are logical questions it's good to face into these things it's not there's nothing wrong with any of this like question yourself is a [ __ ] good idea yeah yeah it's probably you're a bit [ __ ] dick like but uh so like ask those questions and answer them and like by the time I've gotten to fights these days I'm like I've asked and answered these questions I know what those answers are and if I don't that's my problem when I have to be more professional next time but there's going to be a next time and it's gonna be you know what I mean like it's a different thing now it's a different mindset towards it but it's also like it's still problem solving and it's still asking hard questions I still get [ __ ] nervous but I'm nervous two months before now yeah I'm nervous in bed you know eight weeks out from the fight I'm not nervous on the week of or like all right like look I'm feeling something but it's actually to be honest these days it's weird like you know it's a different thing but like the week of the fight I'm pretty [ __ ] like genuinely chilled out it's nearly like a holiday that week and then it's like day off you kind of have to snap up and be like okay [ __ ] yeah today this today with this performance time like there we go you know and it becomes like you know your nervous system gets pumped and you get into it but like it's kind of really like I have to snap myself into like hey you're actually here to find a guy like yeah that's obviously because like obviously you come fight week uh a week before you kind of stop the hard training and then especially with the like the promotions you've been with with Bellator UAE about like you've kind of got it's media obligations and stuff that week then as well so that's probably what kind of is that what would take you out on the zone that you kind of just talking you're not training your body's been through so much in the six or eight weeks beforehand and now it's a break and your body's like oh this is unreal we're getting to recover from everything you know I'm like okay you're not eating the way you'd like to eat or whatever but it's so much easier like you're so used to be knocker day in day out and like being sore everywhere and knowing that you're gonna have to spar that guy tomorrow or it is you know that like once it becomes like just give it four or five days there you don't have to do too much you go for a light jog in the morning okay Grant this is like oh yeah nice one you know so it's like it's a holiday for your body and then your brain kind of like feels that a bit as well and then you have to like hey snap come on it was a holiday for a few days there because we needed to recover we need to lose the weight then we're back and it's time plus you also got to eat a shitload the day before and flying as well which kind of like puts you into like ah yeah but like so I kind of do have to like Snap myself into it today in a flight be like hey it's fight time now yeah but that does happen to me and look I've cornered friends and like I've cornered Auto lads who literally flight time happens like 10 minutes before the flight for France he is chilled out as [ __ ] day in day out like the whole week no matter the whole day of the flight no problem like you know no signs of adrenaline no signs of like [ __ ] you know nervousness or anything and then 10 minutes before flight he just switches on and he goes out there and performs like an absolute Beast so there's lots of different ways to approach the whole thing mentally you know what I mean exactly if you can stay that relaxed up until right to the point where you need to be not relaxed do that that's the best way of doing it like yeah because we actually spoke to buy more he said his sports psychologist now has told his corner to slap him right before he goes out because he doesn't wake up till he gets hit yeah okay so yeah so like obviously with the amateur like years ago it was it wasn't as the rules as weren't as stringent as they are now so when you moved into Pro like was was there much difference and then was there was there a different feeling going into Pro um wasn't that big a difference so I think we fought like C-Class amateur was called and the only thing was there was no elbows and it was six ounce gloves but we didn't have shin pads we didn't know vanilla so I remember when we were supposed to do the eye mask for the first year so 2014 was the first year they were running it and we were told it would be Shin pots we were like that's a lot of bollocks and now like even the thought of amateurs fight when our gym pad seems ridiculous like you know so it's funny how your perception changes but like yeah it wasn't the rule sets weren't crazy different it was three minute rounds three trees decided to prove lives um and yeah like at that no elbows and four ounce gloves instead of six ounce gloves but like I wasn't like it was funny because I was trained over in London and I didn't consider it a big deal gold Pro and even at the time like a lot of low-level Pro guy and it's the same these days low level Pro is a good bit [ __ ] than high level amateur so high level amateur is a much higher standard than like your first few Pro fights will be so like having come out and beaten like you know decent guys in amateur the top guys in Ireland this time an amateur I was kind of like well I'm gonna smash my first few profile it's like and that that kind of is how it went so I wasn't like nervous when I was going bro I kind of knew it's going to be a while before you start to reach real challenges like and like it wasn't I thought Karma clerk on my second flight and I thought he was damn damn good fighter like um so that was like oh I'm facing the legit guy very early on but like even if I was kind of I suppose the whole thing then was kind of MMA was on the up and up in Ireland and it was the scene was getting much bigger and you know there seemed to be a lot of so you felt like if I can be [ __ ] hot and stand out there's going to be big opportunities so it's kind of this thing of like the pressure was just on you to like be really good and stand out um so that was like that was the thing that made me nervous back then at that point of turning pro like I was separating yourself from yeah just being like being exceptional like you know not just being some other Pro not just being some guy who's shown up fighting like yeah so what if I should one of the shows you fought on was Bama talks about Bama uh like the shows they put on were quite good they were in the tree Arena quite a lot talks about that show and and what it was like fighting for them right like I only asked you follow Obama on one side a lot of promotions only four were once but I was booked to fight with Bama like three times so the first time with Tommy Hogan he pulled out and there was somebody else um and I was doubling again I was supposed to fighting the tree Arena and the other guy pulled out um but I wasn't Charlie uh that was sponsored um [ __ ] I'm trying to think of who but like it was back it was like early you know maybe 2015 2016 kind of time um so I was supposed to fight I was supposed to make my debut Obama I didn't I made my debut in Battle Zone against uh Johnny jetsu then I fought with Clerk and Obama said I was up north I was in Belfast and yeah that was it was cool it was well we're on it was in The Odyssey and it was you know stadium and like they got a decent and all they didn't sell it out but they got a good enough crowd up to it and it was a huge win for me like because I was like right that lad was legit and I smashed him and I was really happy with how it went like so I was like pretty pumped up after that and was just like right give me give me whoever um and then kind of like had to [ __ ] wait around for a long time because couldn't get a flight like found a very very difficult to get anybody to fight after that after the year after year back because yeah it took a while to make the pro debut I'm not like I don't think that's because anybody was scared of me I think it was just like people were falling out through injury or there was like other [ __ ] going on and plus nobody knows who you are so it's hard to get booked and then I showed up and I beat Johnny jetsu and then it only took she said oh wait that was 2017 so that actually did take a year I was a sports fighting cage Legacy twice uh in the meantime so and then the guy pulled out the day of the Wayans uh Chris Meaney failed his eye test and like apparently his eyes were terrible six years on I still don't forgive that [ __ ] and I'm like [ __ ] you if your eyes are terrible why are you getting the eye test today at weigh-ins you would presume they'd be done that would be the first thing you'd go with the compost this why the [ __ ] would I waste everyone's time what's safe MMA in at that stage yes so would that not been true what should that not be checked on this test uh so it was the day of the Wayans we found out he failed the eye test then why did it left to go that far yeah look if you're asking questions I've asked six years ago yeah and it sounds like you're never gonna get the straight out no yeah and it was all about and like this thing a lot of like there was a guy came over the day I was fighting as I was getting my hands wrapped and started giving me a lot of grief about that and I'm still six years on like [ __ ] you you morbid telling me like oh you shouldn't be calling out this like oh it's like [ __ ] off Jesus Christ yeah yeah it sounds fun in the back at the back area yeah yeah yeah yeah um like you said that like once you went out your back Kyle you found it hard how frustrating is it like you've you've you've beaten Kyle someone who's legit and then you just want to fight like I said you just want to you want to be the best you want to stand out but then you can't get a fight what's gone through your mind and like how frustrating is that for you and definitely at the time it was like years ago now but like it was very disheartening when it's like you're putting all this effort in and you don't feel like you can make it go somewhere um but I think the big thing is remember opportunity is welcome and that's what I all said to the young last he said it's like okay this has fallen true but there will be a time there will be a moment where you get to show your skills at so just be shared hard and we're not like I keep working on being damn good at this and when that moment comes it's going to pay off right so don't worry you'll get your moment to show it and that's what I was trying to say to myself back then I just wish I'd been working like more legitimate like because we were doing a lot of ridiculous [ __ ] like of [ __ ] like [ __ ] we were like right I put so much effort into learning this this and this and if I'd just gone and done this this and this instead you know it's like we're going down this path when we could have just gone this way and it would have been so much [ __ ] he could have gotten so much better so much quicker but hindsight yeah exactly yeah there you go and like even like looking back with that mentality is a [ __ ] mentality because like no you did all of that now you have all those bases covered so you have this weird skill set in that area that like you don't really necessarily need but at least you're having a like if it's necessary you did put a lot of effort in and it is there and in ways I'm sure it like benefits you in ways you don't see like yeah but you like at the time you thought that was was yeah right we thought that was the way I was going to go like yeah and then like like that you went you had a couple of fights you won tell me what it was like when you when you first lost what was that feeling like because you hadn't lost an amateur either so what was that first loss how hard was that to take or was it hard to take oh this [ __ ] it's all this right now yeah um horrendous um so look like I'd lost in that time uh where your mind fell out on the flight I took a game one flight and I lost that and that was the first competition individual competition I'd ever lost so like I don't know I'd lost games of Chess and [ __ ] like that right but like you know a fight is a bit different yeah yeah yeah and like I'm a competitive [ __ ] like a really General like I said like it bothers me if I lose a 101 on something and I lost the game one fight to double Blaster um and even still thinking about that [ __ ] it bothers me right an idea that like it doesn't go away they kill you like like the first time it's so like this thing that didn't affect my MMA breakfast yeah yeah so I was still undefeated I was still on undefeated Pro right and I was only one and all the time anyway but like I got four like so say that crushed me inside I was very more like I took that way too hard it like [ __ ] my ego it [ __ ] a lot of [ __ ] where I was like okay it's possible to lose and I knew it was possible to lose but I was like I I had this kind of like religious belief in myself of like no no you will [ __ ] floor you smash everyone you know that like I'd proved that like or I felt like I'd proved that to myself in training and done all this [ __ ] to be like you are not like this you're here you're exceptional you're this [ __ ] guy you're like gonna absolutely destroy everyone this your legacy this is your [ __ ] thing like um so then when it was like you lost this [ __ ] K15 how did that happen I didn't try and run away from it I wasn't like oh it's K1 or blah blah I was like no you lost the flight that was a contest 101 and you lost because this guy can output you and our technique you and you know that one like it crossed me for a while and then like my whole thing became like okay I've got to be like tighter I've got to be smarter I've got to be like better at this um so I did work a lot on my stand-up and then I went out and I'll call out shortly after that I was like very happy with that and I think like because it afterwards that period of like okay I'm back doing okay you know I'm I'm okay with this yeah and then like it's always the last result you know as in like so like I lost I took it real hard I was working my balls off again it was like really like and then I got that knockout win I was like yeah I'm good and then like I went off to Africa I did that reality show and so that was like the summer of 2017. and then I was back and I fought with them down in South Africa in December 2017 and I knocked your mind out as well so I was kind of on a high at that point and that was probably the one time in my career where I was like enjoying it a bit too much if you get me where it was like I was going in I was training I was like I'm you know I'm thinking I was good and thinking like I've put all this effort in I'm the best guy here you know voila and like I look at that as such a waste of talent and waste of time and what like you know waste of like you had all this ambition and then you started thinking you were good at something and not even like it wasn't like I was going out to piss every week or something like that but I definitely wasn't pushing myself as hard as I could have been push myself even the girl was like like you know I'm not saying about like hard training and hard conditioning but like pushing yourself to grow as a fighter every day I wasn't going to do that I was showing up to the sessions and that's if you want to be exceptional don't just [ __ ] show up you know go home think about it ask the questions figure out what you've got to work for tomorrow you know and have that have that plan and have that thing set out and go in and approach training with a [ __ ] purpose every day don't just show up you know people go like you know you hear people being like I'll just keep showing up keep showing up isn't going to do [ __ ] off here right show up with purpose show up with intent to be better then you'll get [ __ ] good at something all right but if you show up and you're like oh well I'm showing up I'll get better you know you [ __ ] won't you know what I mean this whole thing is Paul looks like it's like unless you're putting that effort in and not mental energy into being except like damn good at the thing and even like finding the beauty in the thing this thing progressing on anything in life is [ __ ] great crack it's like once you feel progression you're going to naturally go towards the thing again the most frustrating periods in your life are where you don't feel like you're putting all this effort in you don't feel like you're getting any better than anything and I definitely have periods like that whenever my words like like I'm the same as I was a year or two years ago I have the same skill set like the same [ __ ] basic game and not like you know between like say 2017 2018 2019 I felt like that was kind of like a period of like real loss of like potential well potential but like lawful opportunity to improve you know it was just showing up there in the same [ __ ] and that could have been used to develop a much wider and [ __ ] I suppose a much more honed skill set you know but it was like I know like I look back at that guy and I'm like yeah he was putting in a ton of effort you know he was trying really hard like well it wasn't like I was like just I say this period at the end of 2017 right but I go back and I lost the fight then like so sorry I beat um [ __ ] your mind rude went down in South Africa and then I fought over and Jordan I saw him with brave and then I fought over in Jordan and I beat your man Tara Solomon and then I got started with Bellator and I was like undefeated amateur undefeated Pro 7-0 4-0 and this was the one period in my career where it was like oh [ __ ] I'm a big deal now and like you know there was kind of this like mainstream media attention a little bit I was on [ __ ] a couple of different websites then we made junkie and MMA fighting we're covering the you know will Fleury's been signed to this whatever and I was signed with four was bannator Europe a lot of people have kind of forgotten that since right yeah um so like you know I had the Visa straight away and all that [ __ ] and it felt like okay yeah I've I've now proven that I'm exceptional like and I've now proven and that again a Fed into that thing of like yeah early in 2017 it was kind of like or sorry late 2017 after I'd like knocked down room and I was kind of in this period of like I'm good at this like and I was getting that reaffirmed in my head like yeah you're good at this because of all the attention and I'd even just yeah the positive yeah and like you know training was going well like you know my eyes like I was like yeah I'm able to [ __ ] do really well in training all the time like they're gonna let you know the guys around me I'm able to win against them and it's like that's not your measurement tool man you know that like and if I look by and like I have experience now in this so I can never buy somebody else on this like you know don't compare yourself to who you're around compare yourself to you and what you could be and it's like I wasn't feeling well I could have been at the time but all I was doing was comparing myself to the people around me and then I was oh you're doing all right it's like no you're not you know yeah it's gonna be on our [ __ ] people out there it's not just people around you have to be like yeah that's like keep eating you and like I know it's a Conor thing but it's [ __ ] so true it's like be better than yourself just keep getting better than yourself and that's going to lead to some good luck and that was a period of waste of potential in nonsense where like if I have [ __ ] any major regrets at the end of this [ __ ] it's like those companies there you could have been focused on a lot more developing and you weren't and did you did you notice that at the end of the period after you lost the fight did you notice and go right okay I got a bit carried away there so I'll tell you two things happen right so first I lost Donald Lewandowski in Rome I got knocked out in like a minute and a half into the flight and I was like right you're hyped you're this big deal you're this [ __ ] thing and then um you know obviously a minute and a half in you got [ __ ] knocked out uh but it was kind of easier to like chalk down to like you got caught you got a clip that was you know it wasn't like a comprehensive ass whoop them like so in a way my ego like even though I I was my first MMA loss I was kind of like I just need to try harder I need to be better at like this this and that like you know it was kind of like do what you do but do it better and then a year and a half after it so I won two fights in between um I beat your manage old dealer and I was [ __ ] free Arena that was probably like one of the most positive like you know here's the thing I always focus on the negative [ __ ] right yeah so like in my head the losses are so much bigger than the wins and I'm like I have to nearly remind myself you've had a lot of class wins your career is a really successful one right yeah you know you've gone off you've won World titles you've done all this cool [ __ ] but like that matters to me I literally it's like yeah I've done that now that's over like as soon as I won that battle I was like yeah Don I want to be a value of time with that okay I'm in the tournament now I gotta won't go and win this tournament it's a bit like I probably should try and enjoy it a bit more you know but I enjoy my daily life I just [ __ ] can't really like wins mean nothing to me it's funny but like once I've won it it's like okay that challenge is gone now the challenges I didn't overcome [ __ ] kill me still like you know it doesn't go away either like if I think about that thing four years ago or I got knocked out I was like [ __ ] that was such a [ __ ] time that was such a waste why the [ __ ] didn't I prepare better for that like and that will never and like look that's what motivates me to try so much [ __ ] harder for the next one because it's like that won't go away that pain still stays with me whereas like the joy of winning maybe it's there somewhere like you know maybe I feel it in some other way but like when they think about winning a flight it's kind of like yeah that thing happened but when I think about losing a flight it's there it's in my organs I feel it still yeah do you know the other thing is just like an acknowledgment of a situation that I went through it's like yeah I want to fight ah class yeah well done so you know the joy is like short-lived yeah the joy doesn't stay the pain stays yeah but you think the pain is a contributing factor to you staying motivated and not letting stuff like that happen again probably yeah I hope so yeah like it's definitely the thing that drives me the most anyway like if I'm feeling a bit like sorry for myself or tired or like a bit like oh it's the end of the week in the second session on the Friday it's like yep Norbert Vandy whooped her ass in front of ten thousand people of your people you know it's like get off the couch God you know so it is it's a [ __ ] it's a good tool to get you going and like I don't know I hope at some point in my life that I'll get to a point where like those things hurt less yeah and they definitely like it eases it's not like it was three years ago it's not gone yeah I don't know yeah I don't know if like I I hope it'll go I don't know if it will though you know I I can't tell you we'll come back and ask you that in a few years yeah but like obviously you went you got signed with Bellator obviously uh one of the bigger promotions in the world at the time uh you went like that you went on you lost it but then like you'd finished your contract fairly strong yeah I went forward to a Bellator yeah you got four on two so like you you went and I was on a two fights freak when we're contract ended yeah and then it was we were going through that straight so actually you've had a kind of strange five like you said the 16-7 or 17 18 19 was that that period for you and then we go into the weird period for everyone the the pandemic period um so like once you finish that contract you're assuming you're you're getting a new contract obviously because you'd finished this song uh especially when they come here you you're a crowd favorite like what what was that kind of like at the end when you especially with the pandemic happening like then you're waiting on the contract there was a little bit of back and forth and it seemed like miscommunication at the time um like I know you said this to me right before the interview about like what happened at the end there and I'm nearly forgetting myself now I think it was that I had like when I wanted Milan my last fight it was main card and it was Ken Kaepernick and then Fabian had just lost so the obvious fight was me against Fabian and I like even from what I was hearing from John and Dave based on what Bellator wanted that was what was going to happen so I was like cool that's gonna be brilliant um so in my mind that was the fight I was prepared for so like late 2020 it was all about that I'm like you know I was going in I was fine with a lot of cell wall ads and I was really like you know getting myself geared up for that and then it was like March so then in January say I was told like yeah that's the one keep preparing for that but it's going to be a while because Colvin and this type of thing so I was like okay life's on hold a little bit because of covered but keep preparing keep whatever so they kind of like got dragged out a bit and then it was like by mid-February I was like right sure why hasn't the contract why hasn't promotional deal arrived in like um and then early March I got brought into the office with John and he was just like look because of covert they're not resigned a couple of European guys looks like you're probably one of those guys um but like at the same time they're coming back to Dublin and they'll more than likely watch on that card if they're coming back so I was like Grant and to be honest in a weird way that was like dirty a relief a bit of a boost because I was like okay now I can go and fight somewhere else and now I can get a flight somewhere because I was kind of like well bellatorian book and I think there's not going to be any anytime soon so like at this stage in like March 2021 it looked like I'm gonna get fighting before Bellator come back to Dublin um and then over there so I thread away matched a lot of promoters I was trying to get on to a lot of people and like nobody was doing anything because it covered yeah so I was like [ __ ] it's not really an option to get a flight somewhere else and then it became a thing of like they sent me a letter uh like or they emailed me a letter basically being like we really enjoyed work with you thanks really really appreciate the good work blah blah uh we're not recently you know what it was kind of like Adam Paradise fair play that I'm like it's kind of courteous thing to do of like send someone a letter to be like we're not resigning you but also in the letter there was something about like best Vlog with raster but it kind of intimated like there was a little thing in there to be like best local to rest your career basically [Music] um and I was like you wouldn't put that in if you were planning on having me in the Dublin show did you get me yeah uh so I brought her to that and I was like already still thinking of Dublin and he was like no it doesn't look like it so it's kind of like it's slowly progressed into that situation um and then because I couldn't get out like anywhere else I was like [ __ ] this is gonna be a rough period like financially um so then it was kind of like right where can I get it like working a flight working to make money and uh what can I do to get out there and you know keep this thing on the road basically yeah and then I managed to kind of fight over in the FM book area and then what was after that then it was Abu Dhabi was it yeah and then so it's only been free flight since then so yeah three fights it's ah but like thankfully they've all gone really well and I've been smashing it and like won a belt in the meantime as well and you know now I'm with PF Island they look like they're a more legit career opportunity like you know yeah they are and there's a couple things I want to touch I'll go back like when you've come to that obviously you went through that weird period where you said you didn't progress as a fighter you could have got better you then use obviously because you weren't preparing for a fight a lot of the time during during covert did you find then you were progressing as a fighter because there was no fight coming up you weren't in Camp you were you were getting more technical you were getting better skills and and like that like going back to the early days if you stand out were you because you you talked about increasing uh your Technique and the likes your stand up which has showed in the past couple of fights so was that in the back your mind the comment to try and stand out again through this period yeah it was all like look I always wanted to do that it was more that I didn't have the technical input to get there yeah um but then during covert I started training with narius in my homework quite a bit um and like look Marius basically like he's very like old school kind of like Soviet style training where it's kind of like it's very relaxed but it's also kind of like quite methodical and quite like in an intense relaxation if you get and it's kind of like you're Drilling in an intense and focused way but you're like smooth as you're doing it you know um and I kind of like I was so bad at it when we started you know I was so like MMA style of like go heavy you know be strong you know move with intent like move powerfully everything's got to be like fast and jerky and kind of and he was like no slow and smooth you know just do the thing do the thing do the thing and like even just thrilling Jiu Jitsu like that kind of changed my mindset towards like oh okay I can go here and I can go here and everything was kind of like playful but like playful with intent you know it's like I can do that like there's a system behind this but while I'm playing within the system I just understand the game I'm playing um so having him and having like you know kind of having that like different input into your training and Drilling in a different way I think opened my mind a lot as to like the way I could move in an MMA fight I need like I even feel it now like there's guys who got you down in the half guard and they're like hold on for the life it's like what do you waste all this energy for why are you holding me I'm like what what's the intent what like where are we going where does this end and I think that was the thing like I'm always like ask questions get answers all right so ask questions of yourself in those situations but also like in a technical sense where does this lead to yeah and when you're drilling an attend like in this smooth way you find out where things lead you find out like oh if I go here this happens if I go here this happens if I go here this happens and then like you recognize this guy who's [ __ ] doing his best to hold you it's like you're not even preventing anything dangerous from happening you're just wasting shitload of energy yeah because I know where this ends you know yeah it's kind of like I have the knowledge of where we're about to go here and like you're just wasting [ __ ] a lot of energy so I did a lot of that sort of adrenaline for like the last few months of 2020 and the first few months of 2021 and in that period of time like there was a [ __ ] rough enough period there where like say the whole Bellator thing was happening and I was drilling a lot with Muhammad and I was like he was [ __ ] 18 at the time and I was 31. and I was coming to get my [ __ ] ass handled to me a lot of days by this young lad who was [ __ ] just so much more technically smooth and we were doing Jiu-Jitsu and Jiu Jitsu is kind of his thing more about like do you know I was way behind mentally and like I was like I'm asked the questions I'm trying to figure things out I'm trying to be as good as I can be and yet like I'm like amongst the MMA guys I probably won like I probably have a smoother and more Jiu Jitsu based game than a lot of guys but amongst like a legitimate he's just got answers upon answers upon answers his brain just understands things inherently from doing it this smooth manner all the time it's kind of like oh I'm way behind and that was humbling it was really like okay I've got to adapt this I've got to become you know I've got to adapt to this and also like let this into my brain and just keep trying keep trying keep trying and I wasn't smooth and it was that I was like jerky and trying to be fast and trying to do whatever and I'm not saying I'm incredible now even but I'm a hell of a lot better at it and even like look I noticed like I can do the same [ __ ] grappling and use 20 of the energy that I was using in the past and not only that I can also do a hell of a lot of [ __ ] I couldn't have done two three years ago so like I felt like my grappling took a huge jump and then I just started doing like look I've been working my stand-up for you like everyone's like oh your stand-ups made such huge improvements talk to anyone inspired me five or six years ago they'd all be like geez you're standing up through the underrated and everyone I [ __ ] Inspire for the first time is like [ __ ] it's time not for you to go into section so I must look [ __ ] my flight's doing my hands look that terrible and not slow like did it look that bad a couple of years ago and I know I look normally when you walk my ass with his hands but like I wouldn't have been like I wouldn't have considered myself a shy Striker before or not like um and I think you know I mostly looked like it uh but I was doing okay but the amount of like I think during covert even like I lost that magic was asking fight to the Polish lad over in uh Germany at that time in the middle of lockdown that was a bizarre fight as well but before that fight all I've been able to do because all the gyms were closed was like run an Olympic like uh Adrian Quinn Tyrone's brother gave me a barbell so I was like Olympic lifting out in the yard there and I was running out around here and then I was coming home and I had this like little boxing thing where like it was a bubble thing oh yes where you hit it it moves back towards you so I was just doing loads of drilling on that I didn't have Bob at the time and uh I was just working on that every day every day like I'm constantly drilling drilling Drilling and drilling my footwork and drilling this and that and I can't sell Paul for about a year and a half at that stage because I'd had a bad knee injury and um I think like I was starting to get my rhythm down in taupo and I felt like in that rozanski flight I was going to be able to like light them up on the feed a lot and I knew he was like 10 kilos bit heavier than me and it was a big guy and he was strong guy but I was like sure I'm just gonna light him off the feet it's gonna be grand and then when we got into boxing like watched his last fight with Chadwick there he's actually a pretty good boxer as well and like it was not on my way and I was hitting there more than he was hitting me but they hit like he was landing on me and I was like woof he's a lot bigger than me and I was landing on his chin and I was like I'm not doing [ __ ] to this guy so that was kind of like yeah okay where class is everything like yeah and that's kind of like to be honest out of the fights I've lost that's one where it's like I admire my ambition but I was a bit naive it was a bit foolhardy like yeah I waited way less than I would normally weighed when I fought middleweight so I weighed about 90 kilos in the middle of like 2020 because I've been rolling way more yeah and I was feeling as [ __ ] but it doesn't matter man if somebody's 14 15 kilo like I think he was 104 today in a flight and I was 90. Jesus yeah yeah yeah it's alike and I I could feel that like as in as soon as we were up against each other in the case but I really did feel like I'm Gonna Last them like I'm gonna be able to stop him doing what he needs to do and he's going to gas and I've been going in to find him the hard time I was the one bit of training I'd had and I was sparring with Mateus a few times um and a couple of other guys who were up over 100 kg and they weren't trained the same way this boy had been obviously but like what I was noticed when all of them is yeah they were powerful as [ __ ] for like two or three minutes I know that gas and I'd be whooping her ass like so it's kind of like in my head it was like just ride this wave ride the wave and you're gonna be all good so even going back into like I was kind of like okay I've probably lost first round it was pretty close but like he's [ __ ] now I was really confident going into that second round and then he was faster in the second round than he had been the first it was like he was warming up that wave picked up that yeah oh [ __ ] this is bad and like that's the one time in a fight where I've been like [ __ ] this is something like you always talked about like being 100 prepared going in there I underestimated what this situation is and I was far too casual going in there like I took that in a week and a half notice it's one of those ones where it's like that shouldn't have even exist like you know I was in the middle of lockdown it kind of felt like a novelty the whole thing and it's a bit like okay it's a loss it's on your [ __ ] record but at the same time it was like you were just naive and foolhardy you don't [ __ ] I don't beat myself up as much over that one for some reason like it doesn't hurt me the way the other two hurt me it was a weird period in everybody's life yeah it was it was even like at this stage so when we came home things had opened here a little bit but when we were flying out like literally Dublin Airport was basically closed it was like we were doing something illegal nearly it was really strange like because like you weren't supposed to you know even like you weren't supposed to be like 2K outside your goth it was that period of time oh yeah it was the first real lockdown period like and yeah it felt very bizarre to be going off and fighting a lad and sure I hadn't been in SVG in like 30 over three months at that stage yeah so it was mine like you'd have to go out and play obviously like I said as a fighter financially that's what you do that's how you bring your online so obviously as well you probably needed the the fight as well in a sense yeah yeah like it it never hurts but like I didn't get paid massive money for that and I'd made pretty good money right before called like right before lockdown like I was downloading like you know I never [ __ ] signed up for the 350 a week which was so stupid but I was like ah sure I just fought right before lockdown and we were told like oh you're gonna get flights the end of the year and we did we got that flight Milan in October 2020. so like Inverness they lived up to the world so like 2020 was not hard here financially 2021 became a tough one like yeah yeah 2021 was the real like oh [ __ ] you got to make this work but and this was the weird thing about it like you've referenced I was getting so much better as a fighter in that period so between the Kink open and flight and the hoja kajaman flight that was the most growth I've ever had as a martial artist like even like if I look at like where I was when I started it's like I feel like my skills had increased more than at any other period in time and like my desire to get better was 90 bigger than it ever had been before but it was just like the input was there now I had the means to do it like I had the knowledge being fed to me in a way and look John's been incredible over the years like and he's given me so much but like I already like from trailer to London shoot from like in been involved with good guys on the cage and cork a lot of that skill set was kind of some been ingrained into me you know like Jake Hackman's good coach Alexis over in London Shoe really good coach like really high level very intense guy very intense mentality and like the sparring and fighting they're like the sparring there was a flight like that's the other side that's why like competition mindset it's like the way that you Spar over there was kind of you just show up the trend every day you didn't know what they respond so it could have been 90 days a week and every Spire was like you're going hard at it you're like if you can end a guy you end the guy you know what if you can enter yeah and if you can end you he's going to end you like and that was the way it was and like in a way it does develop a kind of like okay cool we're doing this like yeah this is what it is kind of was but at the same time long term for your career I don't know if it's the best thing to do that day in day out like but it was what it was then yeah yeah exactly that's how you train so like what it sounds like to me from the way we're talking it sounds like everything kind of at the end 2021 coming into now is everything kind of fall into place where you grow your mentality you're looking back on things obviously you want the the beds that you a worries you went straight in Titan shot talking through that and how that felt because obviously you got management company and speak to me how important did you find the management company because you had you have a good record yeah but you were finding it hard to get places how beneficial for someone with your record who maybe isn't known globally how beneficial is a management company and then talk me through that fight it depends on your situation so like I wouldn't go about like I wouldn't say to every young fighter or get a manager and get this get that I would say be damn good at what you do first then try and develop a following based off of like what you are so be true to yourself and be true about who you are and what you are and put that out there because if you're good enough and you're inspirational like you know you should be someone you aspire to be and you should be someone other people aspire to be if you're going to live this lifestyle you should be at like a leader amongst you know yeah the thing you want to be damn good at like and if you put that out there and you make that like something people can see and access then people are going to want to do that like you're going to want to be involved with that and follow it and see it anyway so like be true to yourself that's the big thing right but aside manager like developing those two things being really good and having a bit of a following are going to be way more beneficial to you than having a manager earlier in your career so I would say do those things first and doodles above all else at any point in your career right a manager will help connect you with opportunities at certain points in time and look I see guys UFC now who are like [ __ ] what you know six and three or like and they're not very talented Fighters and they don't have followings it's like wow that's a good manager you know it's like there's a guy who's a good manager getting a guy opportunities they probably don't deserve but at the same time I'm like what's that guy going to be now they're going to be found out yeah and they're going to be some guy who gets a couple of 10 and 10 paychecks then goes off and does something else with their life it's like it's not really Legacy you want is it or Dave probably goes back to Regional when they should be doing more the reasons then going to yeah yeah yeah like a backup Benjamin Button career sort of yeah but like look there's there's a lot of ways getting to the same point I suppose but like I suppose make as much money as you can so don't ever refuse the opportunity to make more money but at the same time if you haven't been doing your absolute best to be [ __ ] hot as possible you're gonna get found out when you got to that situation if you're like if your focus is getting there rather than being really good getting an error is going to be much use to you do you know what I mean so focus on being really good yeah and then when you get there it's going to be about like you know you're going to do special things like um but management wise look I definitely found it pretty tall from 2021 I don't know if that was because of lack of manager or more of the covert situation overall was a little bit more yeah so it's it's kind of a hard thing for me to even look back on and judge there's too many variables to say yes if I'd had a manager during that period of time I don't know if I would have gotten on any better like I'm a manager right now and I'm it's now what I'm late October I'm probably not going to find until next year that pissed me off it's really annoying you know I really want more going on like you know I'm here I'm healthy I'm ready why aren't I fighting that's killing me like yeah um and look that's kind of a situation with pfl or that type of thing but like I don't know if it's necessarily like oh you definitely have to have a manager if you're in a place like SPG and John is very well connected and you're with Bellator I'd be like nah don't what's the point you're being so you're paying a fee for nothing yeah for not doing a whole lot for you um but if it's a different thing like where I was I went straight in and got that title shot against a guy who I'd already beaten oh you know I couldn't believe that situation when I got offered I was like okay [ __ ] brilliant like you know a free BET yeah yeah I was there like look easy and like I wasn't taking them lightly but it was it was to go straight in at a title shot isn't something that usually ever happens yeah and what's weird is right like this the other side of that so like you know I beat Dark before when I got over there they were making it seem like I was showing up to like get my ass whooped even all the boys associated with UAE warriors were like oh you know the whole vibe of it was like he's gonna whoop your ass oh my god do any research at all you know um so it's kind of funny and even like when you listen to the commentary even on the Fly pass like when you listen to boys who are commentating they're kind of like real surprise by the way it's gone or you know they seem to be like oh this is what we expected at all it's like did you do any any research though I'd already been pretty comprehensively like and then and In fairness look he gotten a lot better since and I was like I like I did respect that I was like I've watched his last few flights he has improved he is faster he is like he's a second degree black Beltline he's the [ __ ] he was the Jets coach down in tiger mutai and he's got his own gym now and you know very well respected guy he's trained with a lot of very high level guys but at the same time I was like I'm a better I'm a much much better fighter than this guy I'm gonna go in there and smash him like yeah and that was pretty obvious to me and like I don't know honestly wasn't too obvious to her I still no but then again he's coming back like especially if someone if someone beat you like he's come back with that motivation as well so yeah yeah so like like were you wary of that are you because you had beaten like if you got to face someone if you could get one of your fights back like hell motivated would you be going in is that what you were looking at is that what you were thinking about that was a big thing so like there was a coupling like look I'm making it seem like I was casual going into that flight I really really wasn't yeah I'd had a huge angle injury uh about eight weeks before that flight now it turned out it was like an injury that happened like eight nine years ago in London um but it had flared in a way where like it was causing huge problems I could [ __ ] I couldn't really walk properly for a couple of weeks but then by the time the flight came around that was actually much less of an issue but I'd had that throughout the camp and when you have something like that where it's like everything's on the quest there's already a huge like oh just get in there just get through this just get your chance you're gonna get your chance it's gonna happen you know you're kind of talking yourself into the opportunity all the time like I'm like you're really feeling it like throughout the camp um but then there was also that thing of like imagine you got a second rocket Norbert imagine you got a second crack and have an audovski what would you be doing you know everything on the [ __ ] son you could do to get back you know so like this line I was like if he's anywhere near some [ __ ] as I am he's going to be really really driven for this like and I'll like I respected that I'm like I was a dad like probably didn't look as lean or as ripped as I've ever looked but like I was in ridiculous shape my heart rate was like 34 going into that flight like Jesus Christ yeah I thought I had like because I couldn't move around I couldn't run as much but I was doing the ski art [ __ ] day in day out like I was doing anything I could do I was doing it in like this really kind of like russian-y way of like yeah a long aerobic short burst long aerobic short burst and I was following it like boom boom boom boom and I was doing it really like here's the science behind it follow that plan get away like so yeah I was very wary of what I did that flight but it went the way I thought it would go then I just didn't get to finish a [ __ ] yeah you you wonder better than obviously you've gone on to pfl now that's a multify contract you're in the tournament I believe your first fight like what was the score it was like 30 25 6 13 220 230 25 fives but he got appointed the doctor so it was only 110 around so okay yeah and like look that was why I would have scored it as well um I definitely won the first two rounds I'm like fairly comprehensively but they turned around and smashed them and then in the middle afterward around he got a point taken for holding the inside of my gloves constantly um so like the last round was technically a 107 bit because they were almost around two to three judges so like looks impressive but like but it was still an impressive yeah it looked very impressive victory yeah I was happy with it I'm like I think I got to show like look I'm at a level now where you know it's I'm like here's the thing and here's something I kind of wanted to touch on or like it nearly feels to me a lot of days where it's like it's inevitable you're going to end up doing something special you are taking all of these boxes you were doing everything you have to [ __ ] do to be special like I'm standing out like you know my whole career to spend a [ __ ] 12-year journey of like chase this thing leave your legacy be different I've been following that for a long time um and in some ways it's kind of like look this opportunity is coming you are going to get the chance to leave this Legacy to prove what you [ __ ] are and then there's days where it's like you could get [ __ ] yes so it's like you know it's this mix between like you're on the right park keep [ __ ] just following the spot and it's like don't [ __ ] anything up don't [ __ ] anything up and this is new to me this anxiety of like just make it to the [ __ ] show where you can show what you are do you get me yeah that's been there for the last like month month and a half of like don't let anything happen that stops you from being able to go out there and do this thing that you're about to do because that's where I feel like I am it's like I'm on the cusp of something truly [ __ ] special and I'm on the course of kind of like getting to leave that Legacy that I've been [ __ ] you know working for and dreaming all and like [ __ ] and look what's Legacy it's a lot of shite like I'm not gonna care what's done do you know what I mean like but to me it's now that journey of getting to that point where you are that [ __ ] good and when I get to that point I'm going to want to be better and I will never end I hope anyway but I'm like right now I'm at a level where I can do things where you know I don't see any light everywhere in the world who can stop me doing what I want to do when I want like when I'm hitting the right techniques at the right time and I've got that flow down in my brain it's kind of like right you're going to be able to do this to anybody because you understand the system by which you're doing it true and I don't like look you know I've had four flights where I basically haven't gotten hit your mind caught me like here once that's the first time the tree falling like Ken Kaufman didn't touch me in my whole job didn't touch me Tara didn't touch me they all went to decision yeah yeah so what the [ __ ] is that it's like literally it's probably over an hour in a cage is it like 15 15 25 so we're talking half an hour and 25. 55 minutes yeah without getting touched and then I had another 15 there where I got touched once so that's what an hour and 10 minutes and you get hit once and then yeah and it's against decent Fighters do like so you're like okay you're doing something right and like even that one shot didn't [ __ ] you know there was no like it was here Grand with enough power shot back there will hurt like her will like wobble or do whatever it could be a problem but it's also like I understand what I'm doing and I have an awareness of like how I'm gonna break people down and I don't think many people do and I don't think many people get it the way I get it where it's just like oh yeah it's obvious like I'll watch flights now and I'm like why is he doing this you know and it's like you know like I I wonder how many people genuinely understand fighting the way that I and I'm like again there's other things that I'm fully aware that like this guy sees that thing in a deeper way than you see it yeah like I look at Muhammad and I look at his like level of grappling and like even kind of war and Kyle's like wrestling on the fence he does some [ __ ] you're like whoa [ __ ] that was really [ __ ] slick how'd you do that and it's like he has an awareness he has it he can see things you don't see it's like tell me what you're seeing here show me let me feel the thing you're feeling like let me try and understand this instinctively like you do but like I also have that in a lot of ways and I have that in a way of like it's very Global it's like I get most of my like most combat situations I have that feeling of like I just get this better you do because I've been here for a long time I've been doing this for a while mate you know and it's like even like a lot of the young rats that I'm training with like it's kind of like how what happened there and you're like ah you know let me take you back five steps and show you where it all went wrong I didn't but you knew from that five steps where the next five steps yeah it's like it's gonna we're gonna end up here I'm like we are not there and they're like [ __ ] and it's like yeah but it went wrong back there yeah it wasn't the last step it was yeah yeah yeah like it was when you did this when you let your knee go here this this were inevitable you know and like someone opt-in is like okay there's [ __ ] I can consciously recognize and go like hey yeah let me show you here this one went wrong but then there's also like there's [ __ ] I'm not even aware of anymore like where it's just unconscious where it's like muscle memory something like that kind of just like your brain inherently understands that when this happens do this this and this and you end up here it's like oh yeah and that's that's the real deep knowledge of like oh okay you just have that thing and that's what I mean about that slowest mood trailing it instills that much quicker than you know the jerky conscious threatening where you're talking all the time you're doing this [ __ ] so shut the [ __ ] up move develop an instinctive understanding by doing the movements and I'm still not like good at like look I come into these drilling sessions and I'm trying like what are you doing with your leg there you're just like shut the [ __ ] up Australia yeah you know just stay moving stay doing the thing stay boom boom boom feel it once you feel it you understand that you know rather than someone telling you like if you feel you're getting resist the same time and this happens well you know right well I can't put my leg in that position anymore I need to put it in a different position and then what happens after that and then you're learning what the next step is that once your leg is there now it's what's happening with your legs so it's an instinctive understanding rather than like uh oh when you do this do this okay cool that's a verbal understanding yeah if I tell you in the middle of fight do this now you have to think about the movement translate that movement to your body do that thing whereas if you're just moving and doing it it's like yeah that's that's the thing you should be doing and your brain just yeah like you could get somebody who can't explain anything verbally and you got to show a technique you're like oh yeah 100 he gets it like you know he fully gets it and like look some people like I'm somebody who kind of needs more verbal cues when I'm learning but like a lot of the time if you just watch it enough times and that that's a skill in itself is like being able to watch something and then do it you know of like understanding how like seeing the movement translates to your own body and that's something that I still feel like I need to get a lot better at is like when I see that how do I translate that how do you move that way yeah how like okay his hips go in there boom boom boom and then sometimes you find out like people move differently and that's what's really interesting about anatomy and chitla is like some people's hips can internally rotate massively some people's hips can barely internally rotate like and it's like ah or like some people are really stiff in areas where other people are very loose you know or some people just have mad strength like these guys were ridiculously strong like so everyone knows getting that Pakistani handcuff here and like you grab somebody's wrist and sometimes like their wrist is enough to Boom because their external rotators are ridiculously strong they're just like how do some people have so much power here and some people are so weak here and then like look like I'm thinking about all this [ __ ] consciously but like in reality it's just like well if they're straight there then there can't be straight there you should have an inherent understanding of it that if that does if that doesn't work something yeah exactly it's like okay step eight now step B step C step D boom boom boom boom boom and it's like don't even worry it doesn't matter that icon's [ __ ] strong next time you know what's that actually matter in the con like the goal here is to win the fight just boom leave that aside those are thoughts for your conscious brain leave them somewhere else for today you know what I mean ask those questions on a Wednesday afternoon not on Saturday night like Yeah Yeah so basically with the pfl uh format you're going forward there's a bit of money at the end um do you think that the tournament format because you were saying about not being able to uh once you win it's kind of Forgotten do you think that helps with for a tour for their tournament format sort of like look the whole thing I like about it is it doesn't matter if you're a [ __ ] talker or if you're a guy who's like gonna get mad promotion behind them you'll get your [ __ ] chance yeah it doesn't matter how you angle yourself or how you do anything the best guy is going to come out on top here so like it's kind of like it's the fair it's sport it's real sport that's what I mean like that's kind of what I love about what they're doing here it's there's no promotional aspect to it like and like look obviously they're promoting they're doing whatever but if you're good enough you're gonna be the guy who wins the tournament nobody can deny you that yeah so just show up and with us that's all you have folks on and I love that like I like you know like I commit there saying I'm like when we were going on earlier about like MMA being like something where it's like well if you're the best like if you're just really good you rely on yourself you'll get opportunities it's like yeah I sort of is that but sort of not you know we've all seen enough examples of like especially like I think Europe and Ireland is probably one of the worst place for this where it's like well if you just angle yourself in the right way and appear to be something you can get opportunities you might not really deserve yeah so there is that element of like it's more show within Sports sometimes but in this situation in this tournament it's all sport the best yeah yeah and you kind of had an excuse if you're not going to win but you know yeah it is a great opportunity uh I'm gonna ask you one more question and we're gonna go uh when you're finished fighting how would you want to be remembered um I don't really like to like I can't control how anyone remembers me okay but I can control how I see myself how would you like to see yourself yeah um to look back on yourself oh I suppose like I was asked a while ago why I like why I think I do this and I think it's just to be loved but if I was to like I'd want to look back at myself and be very like it sounds like such Pollocks but be able to be like proud and love that guy and be like that was someone who I admired being um and that's someone I still am like I hope in 10 years time I look back at the guy I am today and have a level of like okay you've surpassed that but you also feel a level of like sympathy and pride for that guy where it's like you were [ __ ] trying damn hard to be damn good at this um and I also like I hope more than anything else it's kind of like my biggest fear would be looking back and thinking you could have done something more you could have been better than this and those will be the things that really haunt me in the future and as long as there's not too much of that and there will be it's inevitable there'll be so not but like as long as I don't look back and go no you could have done that you could have done that it's the things I didn't [ __ ] do I know it would bother me more than anything else so if I'd like to remember that's for [ __ ] being [ __ ] hot like you know I want to be known as a damn good fighter but again to be honest I don't control how you see me I control how I see myself and like I want to see myself as someone who tried [ __ ] damn hard to be damn good um that means a lot to me that's huge to me perfect thanks so much for your time cheers thanks for the deaf thank you