IN DEPTH | EPISODE 33 | JESSICA ISAACSON

Summary

Dave sits down with Jessica Isaacaon for a chat about her life and career. Jess is heavily involved in the Irish combat sports scene working as a cutwoman. Jess also has her own company Insideout Care.

Transcript (youtube_captions)

[Music] okay so I'm here with cutwoman J we all know her from the scene but do we really really know her I've spent countless hours going back and forth to shows with her uh she's always been very good to me from soon as I got in so we're going to talk to her about who she is and kind of how she got into it so I want to thank you very much for inviting us into your home and having having me here and taking the time out to talk to me so are than for having me on no it's abute pleasure so who is Jessica isacson where where's your Beginnings that's [Laughter] me as in like when it comes to MMA and comat SP did you gr where you from where did you grow up so I'm originally from town from uh marovich house H that's where I grew up when I was much smaller and then we moved out to D so I've probably spent most of my life in D and this area um but originally we are from the city center uh from marovich flat so um we moved out when I was very young cuz my mom was very sick so she needed somewhere that was a little bit more peaceful um when she was in out hospital or when she was home from being in outa hospital and uh that's sort of where I've spent most of my youth till I moved away when I was like 18 or 19 so I sort of moved to Waterford for a while and then I went traveling for a while and then I sort of settled in mayo um and I was there for about 12 years wow yeah over the far side of country you back no you you don't have you don't have the Mayo accent so no thank God I I left it back in mayo and I move back to D so but yeah obviously you brought up your mother there like that I would have I'd have knowledge obviously you and your family and your background and with your mother there there's something quite peculiar I don't want to say PE but she had one of the rarest types of of cancers you can get talk to us about about that if you're willing uh uh how did how did you find out how rare it was cuz I think it was found in this country yeah so we my family carry a j called brca2 and it was found in this country by Professor Peter Daly who's based out of um St james' hospital or was he's actually now retired but he's who discovered it through our family um so my mama died before the jene was actually found but two of her sisters had already passed as well were her before it was discovered so it was based off of them um and then obviously the rest of the aunts and uncles and then some of us have been like some of us had had the gene testing done others haven't um back when I originally found out I'd had a child um I moved to Mayo and I'd had a child and I was extremely sick after having her um and then I I got some lumps which my GP found um and because I was so young uh Mayo General Hospital really didn't want to do do much about it um just because I was so young it wasn't a to do it it was a sort of and i' had a baby so they just thought was part and parcel of of that um but my GP Mayo was actually brilliant and he comes from like a big family of doctors in all different areas so he pushed it you know on that subject and then we found out that you know this Gene had been found through my family they were you know doing all this work up in up in St James's in regards to it um and then I I come up to get tested when Nisha was about 18 months old and because of the lumps um I had obviously a scaned on I had four lumps and then I got the scanned on um within like 48 hours I had the blood test on about the Gene and then 5 weeks later I came back obviously got told I was positive um and that my Gene was active and then they did another breast scan and found that I had gone from having four lumps to 11 lumps in five weeks so literally like a few days later um or a week later I had a I had to have a bilateral myectomy so straight off the B with an 18-month old child so you know sort of like a case of a lot of things happened fairly quickly so which all stemmed from obviously my mother had originally got breast cancer and then I had spread um same with my aunt as well like so that's sort of where we lay from the early stages of this brca to and it it's it's a bit mad because the gene itself um it doesn't just affect women so in my family I've had cousins um male cousins whove had to have mastectomy Stone because of it so it generally will um affect breasts ovaries womm and women um trout trout testicular and breast in men um who carried the gene um and the gene sort of works in a sense that usually it doesn't become active till after menopausal age um so you can be a car but it'll be nonactive um and it usually activates them but for some reason I have some sort of issue with another um genetic defect that I get from my biological father side and the two of them together caused an issue for me and it became activated because of a hormonal imbalance when I was pregnant so it's very unlikely for her to be active under the age of menopause but for me um so for a long time I was like the youngest person almost in the world to carry this Gene and be an active Gene so yeah so what like that's that you were quite young you just had how how was that dealing with that and especially the five weeks in between like what was that like waiting to find the results and then when you found out it went from 5 to 11 like that must have been quite a scary time especially You' just brought a new child into the world and then you've got all this on top of it yeah it was real hard cuz like I was only 25 you know almost 25 and had an eia so I was only 26 when I found out um about the J and obviously found the lumps and stuff like that but on the flip side of it like I didn't really understand it I was you I was 26 I really didn't understand and I didn't understand the repercussions of the Jan either um like I knew there was you know I was going to be loaded with insurance if I was ever to get insurance and I knew I was going to have issues with getting a mortgage now I'd already had a mortgage so I didn't have to worry about that and I can't reload you because of something you already have but I didn't really understand it like 100% and because they didn't understand it either it was only brand new they had only found it maybe 10 years before that you know that way so it was still like in its infancy stages of of testing for this Gene like trial and er yeah it really was like and back then like the the for brca 1 or brca 2 it was a case of like just like if you carried that Gene whether you were positive or negative with the gene whether it was active or non-active it was like preventative preventative preventative you know whip your breasts off whip your over alvies out no matter what your agees we'll deal with the consequences after rather that and die from cancer like you know I'm 46 and I'm not dead you know now don't get me wrong if I was to do it again would I have my breast removed yes because I had lumps people and family members that I know that had had the breast removed precautionary um would I recommend they do that now absolutely not because the technology has moved on so much further now than we were 20 odd years ago like Nish is 23 now so you know this all occurred when she was only 18 months old you know so would I do it the same way again probably not if there was a different avenue but I still would have had to have my bre removed because it was too dangerous for me yeah cuz there was no other alternative or no other uh suggestion or solution for the problem at time and like you said uh medical Sciences come on Leaps and Bounds and every year it just seems to just get get better and better like I said if it came to now there is other Alternatives there's more about the gene they've got loads of people around with that Gene it also brings other complications like for me I ended up getting forced into medical menopause and me 30s because of it I had to have my womb and ovaries and all removed because of it you know and then that brings consequences as I'm getting older I now have osteoporosis because of it because I can't take a HRT which is a hormone replacement which we need as we grow older um to help our bones and stuff like that and I can't take any to do any sort of HRT which meant I had to go through it without any help in any way shape or form so you know luckily some forms of of it you can take a HRT with but unfortunately I can't because I have the two defects which one is based on hormones and that's why it was so bad for me but um like you know still alive and kicking I'm not dead like so you know you really had to tough it out though didn't you like it was it what like you mentioned obviously your age there like your mother got died quite young and I make sure correct like you're the only person in your family to live past 40 yeah yeah so my mom died when I was when she was 38 my father died when he was 37 and my brother died when he was 29 he actually died in prison from a heart complication um so and he was very young the heart complication that was massed by drug abuse and that they didn't know and he had become clean he had wrote songs he was really doing well and then obviously had a heart attack due to this heart defect that he didn't know he had because of the drugs had master um my sister Sonia who had a myectomy do precautionary didn't didn't have an active game but had a DA she suffered hugely with complications um again she was an addict for a long time and but had been clean for 20 years um before she passed away and she was 30 how old is she she died what year she died 2019 and she Bor 83 so 36 yeah6 36 yeah um and then my young my younger sister Adell who also died in 2019 five weeks apart um and she she actually committed suicide and she suffered really bad with mental health issues um with a je diagnosis and psychosis um so she was in and out of hospital for a long time and again she was no sorry she was 36 Sonia was born in 80 and he D was 83 so yeah so Sonia would have been 39 and he was 36 when when they V out so it's five weeks apart for them and so that's that's like obviously you said she lost two in the in the one year as well like how did you manage CU like I have a sister and like how did you deal I couldn't imagine two of I don't have two SS but two family members dying in the same year and like that your family had all didn't reach the age of 40 like how was that to deal with not with each individual one but all together cuz like it's it's tough like you're such a strong will you're such a strong person and personality like how did that affect you at the time I'd say it was devastating do you know what it was like I'm not going to lie I was on autopilot um because when son passed way um ell and Son were like cheese and cheese whereas I'm like chalk and cheese with the two of them um so I'm always like the baddy like I have a friend um Lisa who she was always play Go cop and I play Bad Cop with them um and she was sorted there hugely to help me out but when Sonia passed away um I knew it wouldn't be long before I D went because she was the one that was like you know if ant went wrong she was on the phone to Sonia like you know that way so so it was it was really hard like as soon as Anya died I knew like it wasn't going to be long before ell took her own life to on that way and this was hundreds of attempts like um some caught la like you know almost like at death store and others not so much um obviously we had an awful lot of issues with um Johnny Gods um we even had to take them to a tribunal because of it and because they wouldn't keep our in um but you know she's gone now so there's nothing more we can do other than promote you know good mental health like and if there is an issue like speak to people don't be afraid to talk to people like don't be afraid to ask for advice and guidance don't be afraid to ring um what's it called P the house or child Samaritans any of them like you know know way or even like to a a a woman's clinic J way or your GP like I mean I have to say my GP is absolutely brilliant to know that way like and I know not all GPS are like that and if they're not then go somewhere that there is a GP like that that like a personal connection yeah that you can build that connection with you know the way like I'm with a great GP down in un um since I moved back from Mayo to Dublin I've been with the same practice ever since I got back they are amazing like I could go down and I could sit and cry and he would just go you know he just he'll take you know they give you 15 minutes slot an hour later and I'm still sitting there and he would never try and push out to you know and and I find it works for me and also speak to a counselor I see I see a counselor when when I need to like originally when my when my mom and dad died I seen a counselor cuz I was very young like I was only 12 and 13 when they passed away so I seen a counselor and I seen him for a long time like over the years and then I didn't see him as an adult but like I do I suffer myself you know with anxiety um so when I get bad that's the first protocol for me it's the same like can like yeah you know and it makes sense and J think obviously with your sister and at the time you talked about John the gods do you think that not that there wasn't an emphasis on it do you think it wasn't or maybe there wasn't an emphasis on it you think they just didn't know how to deal with that sort of thing there wasn't enough training around the issue or do you think sometimes it was just people pass it off as oh she's she's just no it's I tell you what it was and I I'll be very Frank and honest about it cuz I don't really hide on and I am very Frank honest um when my mother and father were very sick in out hospital we spent a lot of time in the cottage hmand on Larry um which were linked to John the gods or their Clinic down the road from John the gods I can't remember the name but now um it's an Irish name but anyway I'm not in Black Rock there I can't remember the name but back in the day a lot of kids who are in children's homes and I don't just mean the college home I mean a lot of children's homes um were basically all diagnosed with the same thing personality disorder personality disorder everyone was given I Was Myself and I had to have that lifted imagine having to get a test home when you're 18 to prove that you don't have a personality disorder that you're not mad no that you're not mad and you don't carry your personality disorder and you only have to meet like eight of those 30 and 90% of people meet them so is everybody got a personality disorder you know that way yeah so to me that was the biggest issue was that they were still looking at ell from being in a children's home but this is like 25 years later five children down the line a partner of 20 years nearly and they didn't change anything for her and that was my biggest problem with Jonah Gods is that no matter how many times we tried to get um assessments done they wouldn't they kept bringing it back to the same thing we actually and I I will always thank Dundrum G station because it so like under under the law if you mention like you're going to you know kill yourself and you ring the guards under whatever section 12 of the mental health act um they can take you into custody for your own safety and the safety of your family and then they get gu a doctor to come to the police station and they'll assess you and they'll either send you 90% time they send you to the hospital where you get an assessment in Vinson's if it wasn't for one of the GED doctors that's based that comes out to D drum and one of the doctors in St Vincent after 100 odd visits to St Vincent with ell and they pushed for the for her to be put into John the gods under a 30-day hold but then we had to go to a tribunal and like to sit with my sister and say I'm so sorry that I'm taking you to tribunal to keep you here so that they will give you help is one of the hardest things I ever had to do so never mind like and then they let her out you know and I said to them you let her out at the tri like my words where if you let her out she will be dead within the year and8 months later she was dead [ __ ] it's just this this just seems like a systematic problem that they failure throughout the whole system like and it's not just ell and it was you know it's so many people like it's so so many people have this same and it's so disheartening cu the country has gone so backwards you know that way and when it comes especially kids mental health like it's crazy Absolut like my nephews are still waiting to be seen and their mother killed herself she hung herself four years 5 years in Mar in in May five years ago and they're still waiting to have to see if H properly wow that there's no free Le oh there's free but there's a wait there's a waiting L I know cuz I know in Dublin cuz I used to do stuff for jigsaw I know they're up and done but obviously they're they're Mayo aren't they so the West probably doesn't have the same kind of facilities or or things that we do no nowhere near but it is easier to access it in the west than it is down here to be honest with you because there's less people and there's less stress on on them so the weight yeah the weight lists are a little bit less like still not that good if they're terrible that's 2019 so that's like you said five years it' be five years Sonia Sonia pass away in March actually a cage Legacy I was working cage Legacy that night when I got the phone call to say my sister passed away um the one the one in oh that sort of looks like a castle oh what is it called there um I can't remember the name of I'm so bad with names of hotels there we see so many Hotel no actually not it's no it was in Dublin but it was in like a really Posh hotel I think it was like deck and Paddy were doing actually at the time it was sort of like a thing they done the small little one in the really tiny tiny I think it's St Mart and tal and then they moved to this fancier Hotel I can't remember the name but anyway it was the uh 24th of March like H I think it was like cage Legacy 9 maybe or something like that and then five weeks later on the first of um May which was Sonia's technically Sonia's month's mind we had just come back from Mayo after home Mon's mind ell stayed on an extra day came back on the train and night she hung herself in the house fu yeah that's like for anyone to go to those different situations and things I just have to commend like you been able to get through that because a lot of people would give up but you're like I said you're strong will you're one of the strongest people I know and like I said you are Frank and honest you don't take any [ __ ] no I don't like what's the point like it's life you know and I don't mean in a thing like there's somebody worse off than me around the corner do you know that way and I don't mean that in a bad way but there is somebody worse off to me so like I can't live a life of oh oh me like I have a daughter I nieces and nephews like I have to move on with it like and it's not me being oh you know putting it in a box and not thinking about I think about my my whole hous is dedicated to my my family and my sisters and my nieces and my nephews do you know that way but and my life is dedicated to them but I can't keep living oh my God you know my sisters have died my parents are dead like I'd have t myself under a bus years ago if I if I was to live like like that and and I just then end up in a depression like why would anyone want to live in that you know so for me you know all that that stuff to keep me saying is working showers is training is doing martial arts you know is being around everybody is having a laugh like and building a relationship and a rapport and that's how I deal with it it doesn't work for everybody but it's how it works for me yeah and like that everyone knows you everyone knows you're on the scene um but we spoke just before we actually started rolling and you said Warriors gym had a big impact on you yeah so do you want to talk a little bit about Warriers and what I done for you yeah so I like I've known Ken since he was young very young because I'm I like I said I'm from d l h literally just down the road and when I moved back from Mayo um I moved back to Dublin because my treatment was all in Dublin and I was like driving you know 7 eight hours a day 3 to four days a week for treatment and it just didn't make sense you know I a young child I wasn't working because I couldn't because obviously I was coming up and down for treatment so I moved back and then I wanted to get F and I heard they were running sort of like an all girls um we were out on Christmas Christmas Eve pissed as you do in val bra and um some of the girls like oh here Warriors are doing in all female class and it was I think rob it was Rob carry that was that was teaching from jaisua and um down and warriors so there was like four of us that piled around together and we're like and of course I used to do I did C for a long long time when I was younger in St Andrews in um pierer so in the recreational center there um so I was like I'd be really interested in that you know that way so I was like will you come will you come type of thing so they were like yeah no but so and I at this time I was really overweight um because I was on a huge amount of medication like massive amount of medication and uh we so it was like 2 days after Christmas or something or after New Year that was starting and we're like will we will we and we were sort of yes and no and yes and no like for the two days beforehand I was just like we're going to do it we're going to do it like and I was so awkward about it because one I was so big at the time um and I was awkward for me it wasn't that like I was I wasn't comfortable in me skin asn't so such because fat or skinny it doesn't bother me you know I don't have an issue with body image I knew that I put on way because me medication and nothing more but i' never had an issue with my body size like I just felt I was going to be awkward walking into a gym full of lads and then realized I walked in actually was no Lads there just the coaches and everyone else was a female so I was like okay so that put me at ear straight away and then Rob and uh Kim were there and they just made it so easy and simple and just like normal there wasn't all year women and you know let's do it they just broke everything down and I fell in love with it that day and I said like I'm I'm going to be like I'm I'm going to do this and you know I think within three months I was in the the main classes then I stopped I still went to the girls but I I I stayed on after the girls and they like the fighters classes after that and that was the end of it I just was always there and I loved it and it was like it just like I was training and whenever every day I could like S I used to be moan and that to be now training on Saturday do you know that way be like it's there training again I just absolutely loved it and it was because of all the lads in the gym like Conor K and obviously Ken Daryl flood all those Lads you know that way never did they make me feel uncomfortable not once in all the time I was there so and it just was like a little family to know way and then I moved and I couldn't down to them so I ended up then you know sort of floating I was there for a good long time and then I sort of ended up floating and I had a couple of injuries and then it was just like ridiculously hard like to get to get going again you know especially because of the osteoporosis and the injuries them were one after the other cuz I'd had like I'd had a couple of bad injuries I brought my hand in the fight I brought my hand training and technically for a fight in Cork and I fought on a broken oh yeah and then I ended up like it was that injury and then I got a foot injury and then I got an elbow injury and it was just like one after the other like and then you know I was got sick again and was back on medication and then the W came oh it's just like one thing after the other like so you know but in between that I sort of found Cuts Like and that's how that came about like so I found doing um going to showers and meeting the people and cornering people and then I seen Cuts people at it and I was like M like that what's this yeah show me this you know and then obviously that's how you went cuz like you said you had a couple of injuries uh you were back on and off medication so it wasn't going to be straightforward to just keep competing and obviously you took a shine C and obviously you want to stay in the community because of what what it and the community is a fantastic Community to be fair like we can all see obviously what's just happened with Ryan Curtis how everyone's pulled together every gy uh God bless him we wish him speedy recovery 100% he's one of the nicest Lads on the scene and he's and he's such a showman as well he he he's a gentleman he really is a gentleman so like so when you got the injuries you want to stay within the community so when you seen the cuts was this kind of like I wanted to learn from me own like that that's the Mad thing so I had wrapped a few sets of hands before that now I'm going to say they were absolutely dire but they loved them now sacked the J then they she would have sacked her and probably buried her as well like at some stage like and told her never to come back out like but they were always happy with them you know which which I still say now like if a fighter is happy with your wraps like you know the Aesthetics of it doesn't really matter to know that way but I wanted to learn for myself because I kept injuring myself like injuring my hands in particular like um and especially with the cold weather um in the winter that's when my injuries really happen like because I can't get heat into my body and with the osal perosis and all that sort of stuff it's a little bit harder you know that way um fat or skinny didn't matter I still couldn't keep the heat in my body um and that's how why I wanted to learn how to you know wrap my own hands but I was watching it cuts team at a show that I was cornering someone that and I was like just the Rapport that I seen and how they were it was like the Rapport I had with people I train with and P with um and I felt that was another direction that I could build on um you know like because I I love being interactive with people you know I love chatting with people I love having to laugh and I really don't take myself hugely serious like I am a serious person when I have to be but nine times out of 10 I'm not I mean I'll make a joke about me before you'll ever make a joke about me so you know that's why I can't beat you in that that's it like so you know H you just mention something there and I actually want to touch on it cuz I know if we go further on I'm going to forget it that moment when you're wrapping their hands in the back because I talk to Fighters and lot them say the kind of nerves come and go during the week but when they're in the back is really you know they're waiting around to get what kind of moment is that to share with a fighter what kind of uh emotions have you seen like from the highest to highest to the most nervous what kind of uh like you said Rapport what kind of connection is that like just before there it's mad because for me I work with so many of the lads and the ladies here that I've worked with from like their very first like novice amateur fight right through to their professional career and every time they sit in my chair there's like a different connection with them there's that like friendship and bond that you build up but there's a different one because you become almost like a counselor when they sit in your chair because they'll tell you things that like they not tell anybody else and it's a huge emotion like I I people have told me about them having like their m is having baby or being pregnant before they've even announced it to their family oh you'll never guess you know that sort of stuff but it builds like a huge rapport with them and I love that connection with them and I I think that's what drew me to it was watching you know how some other people I'd see and had connected with the fighters as well on that level cuz I felt that were like some of the guys I would have P done a huge amount of pad work like girls and guys like um people like corner you know that way and I just felt it was an extension of that um and to be on their Journey with them like is it's an absolute privilege like you you couldn't ask for more like I have Fighters like from all over the world that I talk to all the time and I might have they might have sat in my chair for a year two years even um I recently racked a guy that hadn't wed for six years but I spoke to him throughout that six years I had you know that connection is still there like so um for me it's an absolute privilege and I love that connection of someone sitting in my chair um and then I love being able to go out and work their Corner then afterwards and that's how I build that that sort of relationship with them going forward and then when they see me come into the cage if you know they're not worried they're not panicking you know that there's something really wrong like and and we tell them that like we don't come in only for a c we're there to you know help maintain you throughout the whole fight you know to keep you in the best condition we can so that you can go go home in the best condition that you can yeah and that's obviously you've got inside out care which we're going to move on to and your tagline is obviously helping Fighters Go the Distance is that because you had so many injuries and stuff that you want to you want to see them see the fight out where with as little injury as possible obviously you can't do anything with the hands but was it because of your injuries that you kind of came into this not really no it was more just a rapport it yeah no like obviously the injuries and then once I I learned how to rap like I once I wrapped actually it was really weird the way it happened cuz I I wrapped a couple of sets of hands and then I sent them off and uh I was sort of that was like say the Tuesday and I got a message back oh can you work this show on Friday night I was like from those few pictures type of thing and um I went to that show and although I I knew a lot of the fighters on the scene um from being at the shows obviously not as a cool person but being there like with Fighters are cornering or there as support you know that way um it was very different to just like turning up and working out the back you know it it was a real like surre real moment type of thing cuz I I sort of was like do I don't I know what I'm actually doing um and I was really worried like you know if I wrapped it and someone brought their hand like I was like oh [ __ ] you know type of thing um and then like the very first night I worked a show I was put out the front grease and now I would never do that um to anybody that I'm training up you know that way like like I mean I I was like what the hell do you know that type of thing um it was real in your your face and you either make it or you break it when you're put in a situation like that you know what I mean but I wouldn't put anyone in that situation and then what happened was with inside outcare obviously I had worked on a different team for a good number of years beforehand and I had a lot of connections with the Thai Community here in Ireland obviously because that's what I you know that's my background technically it's my background and um they had asked me to cover some shows so I had started doing some thae shows and I didn't have a name and I I was just going to call it like fighter care and safety and then I was sat down and we were talking about it and the infinity loop came from the cancer so that's where the loop comes from and then the Inside Out care came from that it's not just in this in the cage we look after it's outside of the cage so that's sort of how that came about and that was built because of the relationship the the Rapport that we built up with fighter sitting in the chair so it just made sense to call it inside outcare because we were just inside the cage we were outside as well and or ring you know or just cage cuz it's like you know the one thing but that sort of how inside out care came about and because we don't just cover one sort of combat sport that's why the gloves are gloves and MMA um if I could put bare knuckle on that I probably would as well but you know that way like um and that's sort of how it came about was that we didn't like you know it wasn't a case of I didn't want to be that bug standard Co man that just torn up our woman that just turned up just you know did a little bit and then went home like we we're the first in we're there two three hours you know yourself if you yeah many many times over the years like we're the first in you know we're there two to three hours beforehand and we're the last to leave once all the fighters are done and dusted and all the RS are cut off at the end of the night so we don't leave till the last set of raps cut off a fighter after they've left the cage you know that way or ring or whatever so you know that's sort of why it became Inside Out care yeah it's it's a good name when you actually break it down to yeah to why but it's not just me like I'm I'm not only inside out here it's not just me like I you know I have to point that out it isn't just me like you know at the beginning it was myself Brian and Danny you you have't met Danny she had a baby a while back what a couple of years ago and she sort of took she's taken some time out so it was originally like myself Brian and Danny and then Tommy MCA came on board with us um when when I left the other team and we went out on our own um so it's not just me like that's set it up like it's my baby but it wasn't just me you know that way like if I didn't have the support of Brian and Danny and and Tommy at the beginning like we we would not be where we are now like definitely wouldn't be where we are yeah and like you cover I want to say about 90% of the shows here between MMA T Like You cover everything boxing you covered the bear knuckle with we do be knuckle boxing we've done the the um like what's the Kingpin yeah like the the YouTubers no they're not YouTubers they're yeah influencers influencers and then we've done a few influencers here you know Ben Williams he has a show on UCC um as well so that's starting to gain a lot of for the influencers as well they had a for show there a while ago so yeah we do like all Combat Sports mu Tai K1 MMA Tai Ki boxing and we do everything from novice novice shows in gyms right through to some of the biggest professional showers like in yeah in the world you've been you've you've traveled uh traveled the world with this as well but as you were building throughout the years like did you ever Envision having like because you've quite a few Juniors with you obviously you've got Don fola uh you've got Jack I oh no they're not Juniors they're no they're not Juniors but like you you've got that you've got them now and then you've got Juniors underneath like they they've all come like when you become a cut man or a cut lady or a cut woman you don't just go straight in t you you actually have a procedure yeah we have a graduate what we call a graduate program so you come and you do the course um and it's a it used to be a two-day course but we find that because working as a co- person is is a practical skill 90% of the co- courses that are done throughout the world people do one day course and they just automatically get a cook course certificate Sayed or cookman I don't do that and I'll never do that um and you know that's just my own opinion on on it um if you want to give it that's up to you but that's not how I do things um and then if you decide you get a certificate for you know coming to the the course um we offer every participant of the the the it's actually a seminar and workshop we don't really call it a course because it's not technically a course it is a full-on seminar and workshop like um we offer every single body uh a chance to do the graduate program and all we ask of you is your time for us to teach you on the job how to do it so all you have to do and I I mean to the extent that I will pick people up on the way yeah I give them their food I'll feed them you know and all they have to do is give give us their time while they're training and then do the steps once they become a junior and then you know a sort of senior like and that's how we work it um everybody's different it takes different people different length of time to get to that level where they're in the cage working as a senior without you know being having to work with beside me or Brian and fola so it would be me Brian and fena will be the three main people you know on the team that would look after um graduates coming up through the program and what'll happen then is as they come a junior they'll be matched with other seniors as well and then everybody sits down and gets feedback so it's not just me saying oh they're ready to go into the cage or on their own you know they'll they'll come through it they'll do the junior they'll start off where they'll come out the front they learn how to grease properly um learn how because like now most of the shows like when I started out there wasn't cameraman a million cameraman in your face like or videos are being recorded constant it wasn't like that there was a couple of photographers and that was it um if you were lucky there was more than two you know way for a promotion now there's about 52 um and you're trying to navigate around you know big cameras and photographers and all that sort of stuff like so that the fighters can get their moment and that's how it should be um so we have to sort of teach them how to do that properly as well do you know that way that they're not in the way that they know how to direct like the coach away but around the camera without getting in the way you know there there's an awful lot to it that people don't actually see but it makes the experience for the fighter a million times better when you know what you're doing in that situation and then what'll happen is is you'll come out the front once you learn to grease you'll come out the front we'll allow you to start going in where there's no Cuts just to grease up in between rounds then we'll start where there's minor like very small Cuts or hematomas where there's not multiple things to do where you just have to like hold a bag of ice or an Nell if you prefer to use an Nell um on the hematoma and then grease up just before you come out um and usually a senior will sort of stand at the far part of the cage and watch while that's happening and then once they've sort of gr the confidence in there and I know after someone's been in there within two rounds of them going in I know if from greasing up after our second round if theyve enough confidence to be in there and that's when I know to pull it back it's the same with Fu it's the same with Brian they they just see it and on that way it's just we just yeah I don't know what it is we can just see it like and then if we get people who are really confident and they take off like with a girl at the moment did the course only like a few months ago in fi and she's amazing you know that way she's absolutely brilliant like um Rebecca we started putting her out the front now she started to go out with a senior absolutely brilliant again few months like what four months five months and she was in the agage do you know that way cuz I was like I recognized her and then I realized where I recogniz her from yeah yeah and and well she's Kieran Brady's wife so game a long time I haven't seen her with G but I know who she is but one of the things is when you're with when you see like obviously does you Brian and is kind of M when you these Juniors come and they become a senior what kind of a feeling is that like for you that theyve they've got that far do you know what actually it's mad because I won't even say about them getting that far it's the the compliments I get back from the fighters about them about how good they have become because they have seen them applying what they learned in that course and what they're learning with the other senior that they're put with out the back wrapping hands and like I've had Fighters come up and say to me like um oh she she wrapped my hands my very first fight and a year a year later she's rapping them again and the difference or he's rapping them again and the difference and how they hold themselves to me like that's to me that I'm so proud of that I so I'm so proud of them getting to where they're going whether it be 3 months or two years but for a fighter to or coaches to come to me and go you know what you have an absolute amazing team and you know they're here for the right reason you know they're here for the fighters and they only care about the fighters I mean I have had runin with promoters you know because I don't care about the promoter and I don't mean that in a bad way I really it's it's it's not like and Coach I push them out my way to get to a fighter and it's it's no bounds about them it's it's how I feel about making sure sure my fighter in my chair is looked after um to the best that I can do it and any of my team can do it and for a cultural fighter to say to me how good they have seen those people grow um is like our heart gets you know get the fls like it's so weird it's so weird like I just absolutely adore it and we are like a little family do you know that way like I love the bounds of the guys that are on the team do you know that way and it's very hard to bring someone new in um like we might only get one or two people from every course that we run that actually goes a distance you know that way and I have like we have to be you know very open and honest and say it as it is and nobody holds on back because you know there was a lot of toxicity in other teams before um that we've worked with all of us have have experienced it and we don't want that ever so like it's a very open door policy with inside outcare like if you have something to say say it we deal with it and then it's gone again it's never brought up again yeah that that's the best way because then like that cuz that that will just Fester it'll lead to bad feelings and then that will just continue and then it'll eventually could potentially break the team apart of course like and and there has been issues before with other people on the team that it has caused issues where multiple people on the team have had problems with people so we have had no but to say look you know unfortunately going forward we just we can't have this relationship do know that way thankfully not much do you know that way um but if it affects like the whole team then it's an issue and like unfortunately I end up being the body but I'm usually the last Bol to know that that's going on because I just think everyone's great and know so and I couldn't get on so H everyone I'm just like yeah do know that way and then someone says it to me and then I go oh hang on actually now that you point it out cuz I'm so busy at a show making sure that like everyone's doing what they're supposed to be doing and where where we are in the day that it runs right and you know the team is where what they're doing what they're supposed to be doing and are where they're supposed to be and then you you get caught up like with coaches and promoters and Fighters and Fighters I haven't seen for age they be running by and be you know the usual having a chitchat like um you know it networking has become part and partiel of being a cult man these days like you know that way um but it is it is what it is it's part and parcel of the job unfortunately um you know it is what I don't it's not it's a skill I do well but it's something I don't like to do um I like that our work speaks for itself you know that way but it it just it's part and parcel of it but it also gives me an excuse to go and talk to you know Fighters I haven't seen for ages or coaches I haven't seen or find out how they're doing or if they've got like a new contract with a new promotion be like oh what you do who you know what I mean get a bit of gos you know who you fighting next but like that you've been like where have you traveled to with this I'm not even go to cuz I can't pronounce half the names anyway so I don't know but I've been in a lot of places and I've been very fortunate like that I have um I covered a lot of imaths in the early days cuz I enjoy doing the imaths Because well I enjoy doing any big competition like that because um where they are pro CAU man or woman or whatever you want to call yourself um going back to the Grassroots is a huge thing for me I like my shows in Ireland that I work on and I don't just mean my shows like the whole team shows I'm just saying personally from my experience I mean my shows that I work on in Ireland are more important to me than any show anywhere else because if it wasn't for those shows we wouldn't have those bigger shows no it's just because I be fair and I like the people that work around no I'm not going to lie like there is a lot of politics in all Combat Sports um and and I hate it I hate the kissing ass like I I just hate it it's not a game I play I don't like it um it goes on so I just ignore it it's it's the only thing I can do is ignore it because otherwise I would probably lose my mind over so to me I don't that doesn't happen here at home like it sounds so weird but like the the officials we work with the arrests we work with the judges the uh doctors the coaches um the promoters there none of that Maly goes on do you know that way and I love that part like you you know I love it that you can just go in have a laugh of the fighters do your job be you and go home at the end of the night now that everyone went to home is safe as possible and that to me but I love me Grassroots showers like here I I just find iish fighter I like the best to be around like we have the best laugh out the back you on that way like nothing is off limits as and such you know and I think you have sometimes have to be cautious when you're working abroad in certain countries what you say and how you say things whereas I just don't have a filter so like it it has come back to bite me on the ass sometimes in different countries but yeah but you're look I home your own with the best of them you know what I mean like I'm usually the short the smallest person in the room but I have their biggest mouth so like you know it is what it is like yeah you do that you don't take a [ __ ] one of one of one one of the best photos I like of you is actually you and Ryan Higgins what did you have to stand on to reach him to greasing so I stood up on a step um at cage Legacy because when he came out that time and particular came out like this so and he was in that moment and I really didn't want to move him too much from it because I don't want to interrupt when a fighters in the moment although he did put his head down a bit to me it wasn't down as generally how low he would usually cuz usually I can get him on me Tippy Towers but I didn't want to take him out of his Mojo So I just like very slight not slightly SL know stealthly Ste one like a ninja yeah like an ninja sort of cuz I I know like I'm pretty good with me spatial awareness like so I knew the where the step was so just like very stealthily got up onto the step and did it B it and and like everybody you could hear people like going and then laugh and you know that way and and me and Ryan have this thing about then when it comes up every year like it's sort of like we share it again but see it's those moments do you know that way um that they're the moments for me you know like they're to me like that that makes me laugh that makes me chuckle and you know gives you that little warm feeling like that you know you're doing something right with them yeah there there're the fun moments that was that was cuz I know Ry and I think was I don't know if that was czy I remember wanted a picture of me so we could see the the difference in size which I think still I still have on my phone and then Ron obviously got a nicer picture of me and him when we went to CAC but I'm going to finish up fairly soon but there's a couple of questions I want to ask you we obviously the experience you've had like name maybe the favorite country youve visited because of Cs um well I have to say like we've been gone out to barin since 2017 J way so to me I love going there I always feel so comfortable there you know that way and and I have done and they've always made it very comfortable they you know one though like the bahini people are very very nice people you know they they do anything for you but they've always i t when I went out the very first time I went out we sort it was still sorted it was you know you have to be careful what you say or don't do this or don't do that but never have a had to In fairness to them do know that way so to me for me like Bahrain is one of my favorite countries to go to to work showers and um and like that some of my Best Cuts have been on on Brave whether being b r or you actually most of the the bigger bigger Cuts were on Brave and byin um over the last couple of years um so I'd have to say like Bahrain is probably one of my favorite countries to go to J know way but I really really really loved Serbia um last February um I went out to teach the cook horse for imath and then do health out um for the IMF CH World Championships and then do Brave on you know the the end of the week like or 10 days or whatever it was um and I have to say the the Serbian Lads from the Serbian Federation and the lads that did the two Serbian Lads yuros and Miland that did the course with us um and then there was a girl Lara I have to say like I'm still in contact with them now they cover shows and they text me and they send me like pictures and videos of them doing the shows and working on cuts and stuff and then a couple of the lads that AR ref like and I still speak to them now and I have to say they're very much like the Irish people the cbans are like they love a good drink you know they love a good session um and they can session with the best of you know and I mean we did some sessions there so um so I'd have to say probably that not cut wise but I Serbia was one of the the nicest places as in people wise that I've been to in a very long time do know that way so I would have to say bahin and Serbia okay so let's say Arena or Stadium or just venue what was the kind of venue that you went and kind of went w this is different this is bigger than the rest I have worked in some of the biggest on some of the biggest shows like Bellator B cage Warriors H Brave King bin do you know what I mean like I say in places like the tree Arena I mean in Serbia back in Bahrain was over 20,000 people or something like um I don't wrate any of the venues no doesn't come into it doesn't no I do have to say I do love um like there's two places here I love Kil Mana in tal and the devonish up in Belfast that is I love them love them love them they're two of my favorite spots in this country to work in I just the I find the atmosphere is just amazing in them and it's so intimate to a degree you know that way and the shows that do Beyond there are brilliant but I think the red cow in the new Warehouse is becoming like a really good favor we've done a good lot of shows now in the in the new warehouse and I think it's probably becoming my third or third favorite place but I don't really have a preference between Arenas or you know the P down the road I'm there like so I do the same thing so whether it's on stage you know to 50,000 people or you know a th people it really doesn't matter to me I mean my only job is to look after the fighter you know and have a laugh in between which leads me to my next question cup horn for you right everyone laughs when I say this is our CP I can imagine you and Brian sitting down watching just fights Anda going Oh The Blood we we send pictures back and forth with you you've said them to me as well and I like I really don't want to see this but thanks um what was the like name name a c that what was your favorite C that that I've had a lot of like really Great Cuts over the years I have to say I've had some amazing Cuts but so I did a tie show um Sean Clancy was fighting Chris musari a couple years ago for lions fight 69 I think is said they're like a English uh UK American promotion that come over to do super fights with Martin Horan down in so was it like a co-pro so Martin put on Amazing uh Martin hor puts on a maaz and Tai shows um and Sean was fighting Chris and and in the very first actually this only come up cuz someone seeing it on YouTube and they messaged me is that you working it cuz I was a little plump at the time because I was on medication but anyway um I he had brought us on cookman with him and he was at the side and he was in my corner Chris was so I was like Grand he was like I want to work on my figh no better I didn't know this C man but he wanted to work on him so I was like yeah that's no better don't have any issues with that I like the fact he did decency to come up and say to me look at that's my figh of mind if I work on them I I really respect something like that you know that way and um I was like yeah that's Grand no problem so they were not long into the first round and Sean threw an elbow and slipp him wide across the his forehead did he have butterflies oh no I just got so excited and then I remembered [ __ ] he's going to do it and I was like [ __ ] to know that way was like a um and then he literally walked over and handed me his adrenaline and goes I'm not dealing with that and so I walked off and I was like all right so here I go so the bell went obviously up onto the side of the the uh ring I went and started working on him so OB it's an a class was a little bit longer in between um and then D marus actually was um ref and um he's you know Michael bison's striking coach um and he's lovely and he's a brilliant phenomenal ref like he was reing it and he was back in forth back and forth and having a look and you can hear commentary even I could hear them H it was H way from Martin's gym was was was doing Comet with with um oh tattoos I can't think of his name now from the UK but um they were doing comment I could hear all he keeps looking and he's talking to I think they might be stopping the type of thing you know that way and then all of a sudden he walked and and they couldn't see any blood and they couldn't see the cat or and and so I was like oh they they're letting it go on and and he like Chris did his job and I did my job he took care of his Co you know I said to Chris when I finished you know look after that Co cuz he he'll keep going for it and it LO more and it already had one or two smaller tears coming out from it so like I was pretty sure if Sean give him another elbow there or a really bad Punch or he got kneed to the face or something that that would open so wide that D would have no choice but to stop the fight but In fairness to Chris he did his job and he did protect the C and it it opened only ever so slightly more but we managed to to like I managed to through the whole five rounds he went all five know we lost but he went all five rounds so you got him to the distance so I got him to the distance that was probably my favorite call um In tha and then I was looking after Oly he's a Finnish Fighter um on Brave and he had said to me before um actually know he he said he knew there was a c people on the show he was delighted for that because he had he had actually told Brian this beforehand not me um that he had fights when he'd fought in Finland his Pro fights had been St stopped because of a c CU he didn't have Co people so and Brian was like oh well we have a full cut team here so you know go for it type of thing you know like you do let's get a few cuts out you or something to that sort of effect so we went in he fought and he got a really bad Co now it was never like really going to be SL stopped unless it got open so bad that there was a flap on it cuz it was on the the front of the face here you know on the Cheap on it was a little bit of a hematom so it looked a little like it was long but it looked worse because it was a bit of fat pad sticking you know cuz it was on the on the a bit of a hematoma so I went in and I looked after it again through the rounds and then he ended up winning the fight and that afterwards then I was talking to him and we were back and forth um and he was saying that's when he reiterated again that what he had said was that like he he had lost a fight because of a Dr stoage because of a c like and he was flowered when they let it go on with this big cut on his face and then like a couple of fights in I I'd worked with oie a few more fights and then he came back was it last year it was last year was 23 um and he was fighting and then he got like a number of cuts I actually felt like an octopus trying to I had like five cuts on a and a bloody nose all in one go so I think like they'd be my most memorable Cuts like as in the the probably the proudest all these in particular on the second fight cuz he had a lot of cuts and and a nose blade but those would be like particularly like you know exciting cut for me because um they were just a situation where will they won't they stop them will they won't you know that way and and then that makes me want to work a little bit harder where I think they might want to stop it um and that gives me like you know room then to like I speak to doctors and I speak to nurses and I speak to Medics that I know and I ask them for little tips and tricks and I'm learning how to stitch even though I don't need to but I think for me to be more delicate sometimes like sometimes you see you know there has to be a bit of delicate when you're you know filling in a big cat in particular because then it'll just start bleeding straight away when they walk out and you don't want that you know that way because blood looks like people think our sport is barbaric enough as it is and I don't want people walking out and seeing blooding and that's people go that's barbaric and they shouldn't be doing this and you know blah blah blah blah and all that sort of stuff like so I find that if I can do the best job and they look really well going back out even with a bad car then like I've done my bit to keep them and they feel great as well then when it like there's no blood on them and there's no trickles of blood they don't feel it running down their face or down their nose you know that way but like not every single cook can be stopped or every sing well probably 90 95% of cuts can be stof but nose blades are a disaster like they are absolute [ __ ] atrocious thing to try and stop like really bad I hate nose blades like we just you can get ones that are simple and you learn over time how you know and then you can get ones that just bed and bed and bed and no matter what you put up it whether it's a txa nasal W adrenaline doesn't matter it just won't stop bleeding like so there are your two favorite Cuts but um I'm going to let you go I want to thank you so much for your time is there anything you want to say on the back of this if any advice for people obviously we talked about the start of your life with mental health um is there anything you want to say or advice for people in MMA or maybe joining in MMA because Warriors was able to have you true time yeah like for me Combat Sports is what keeps me on a same pack like it obviously it's not going to work for everyone but you won't know till you try it and I don't mean you have to go to taiy or MMA or whatever like but even you know to a degree boxercise and I don't generally say you know but with a proper coach that knows what they're doing do you know that way H give it a go like the the like the adrenaline just Spike something the endorphins that it gives off like it's just so different like like I was on medication when I when I was suffering really bad with anxiety um and it was at a time when I wasn't training and I wasn't on a far huge period of time probably only about a year year and a half like and it did help don't get me wrong it did help along with the counseling but when I got really bad after my sisters passed away with the anxiety I didn't need pills I punched a bag I torned up every you know train and I I you know just went to the showers enjoyed myself remember that there is life outside of mental health but on the flip side of that like if there's something wrong if you don't feel right like nobody is worthless like it like I know it this going sound real thing but like suicide and and I'm going to say it because my sister committed suicide like suicide I hear people say it all the time it's such a selfish act they leave all this behind they can't help this they can't help feeling the way they do but until we break the cycle that it's okay to speak to people it's okay to put something on someone to help you it's never going to change like until they open the services up to help people it's never going to change until they put the right people in the right positions it's never going to change and the government just buried their head in the sand about it it's like it's closed the door and because it's not happening to me it's not happening to anyone else and it's disgusting so for me it's a case of Pleasers like if anyone ever needs an ear please don't hesitate I you know and if there's any advice I can give or someone I can pass you to then I will by all means and I would have to say probably 9 99.9% of our Mar our Combat Sports Community is of the exact same thoughts you know I have people have messaged I have messaged people when I've been in a bad way within our community and have got advice back straight away like you know and and it's up to you whether you take it like I always say I'll give advice excuse me I can't guarantee like you like the advice I'm going to give you you don't have to use it's only my advice or guidance or you know if you ask for an opinion and you don't have to use it but it's there if you want it like do you know that way and like just don't be afraid to talk don't be afraid to ask questions don't be afraid to feel like you're having a hard time don't be afraid to cry like people say oh you shouldn't cry cuz you're a fighter why shouldn't you cry why not like why can't you show your emotions like and that's male and female I'm talking about I'm not just speaking about the women like you know that way it's one of those things like I will help anyone I can my phone is always on it's never switched off you know I I've gone through it a lot with my own family so I know how it is um but please like talk to someone you know find someone to speak to like sometimes you know your family isn't the people that you need to speak to sometimes you need to go outside your family like sometimes and Friends a Str not a stranger but someone that's not that close to that doesn't know kind of your ins and outs of life so they wouldn't not that they'd be judgmental but they don't know sometimes EAS are well they are judgmental and I don't mean that in a bad way because they know your situation so they they are judging you based on your situation they say because you're still doing this or you're still doing that yeah and and and that's the a lot of the problem sometimes that's why some people get to that stage where they feel they can't do you know that way and I'm I will I will hold my hands up I I am I've done it with my sisters before because I I would have been very black and white back then I would have been well you're doing this so therefore and you continue to do this so therefore it's your issue you know I've grown as a person because of having to go through that like and I can hold my hands up and say well no it's not black and white there are so many Shades of Gray in between it and sometimes it is easier to go outside of that family or that Circle and ask for go advice and guidance outside of it do know that way that where you might know somebody but just like to say hello to or you've seen them around you've hey you type of thing and they you know but you you sort of know that it might be someone that be able to give you a bit of advice and guidance like so you know and and that's all I can really say like but don't struggle like don't sit at home struggling on your own please try and find some someone that can help you like you know or pick up a phone like I said earlier to Samaritans or you know um PA the house or any of those you know because I found out after ell killed herself like you know that she was actually to been on the line to the Samaritans earlier night before she H herself like and I say it very openly because that's what happened like I I I don't want to dress her up like oh she committed suicide she hung herself like you know she is a 36y old woman with five children who hung herself because she couldn't cope like and beforehand I would have said but you're still doing this or you're still doing that and now I see those gray areas that I didn't see before do know that way um and that's why I say please talk to people and we only found that like like out later at the inquest that she her last phone calls were to the Samaritans like you know so at least she was trying to to talk to someone you know even if it it was one of those like last minute dit attempts like but please yeah you find you know find someone to talk to or someone to give you some a guidance or advice like and don't be afraid to ask ever like perfect I want to thank you so much for your time I want to thank you so much for being so honest and open especially about a lot of things that you talked about you showed amazing mental strength emotional and physical strength to even go through what you've gone through and I want to say thank you so much and you're such an amazing person to I'm not to to to to to go to what you've gone through and still have this positive outlook so I want to say thank you very much and life is precious D life is precious that's really all it is about life is precious and I have so much to live for um with my work so you know and I really appreciate you having me on cuz like I know we we said we do this a long long time ago and then like you you had a little break and I had a little break and I you know sort of stuff so but you know life is precious and I and I love living life do know that way and I think like don't get me wrong I having down times and I do really appreciate you know H like having to chat with you and I find it so easy to chat to you um you know on that level like cuz you know you're not just you know some stuck UPS doing an interview um and I just find it easier to talk to you do you know way you're on the same level like but I really do appreciate you having a chat like and asking me on and and like you know hopefully you know that getting out there and you know if it if it helps one person like then then I've done something as a human being like and that's all I can ask for and I think for you continuously doing this supporting the fighters and supporting the coaches in the gyms like I think it's shage you know for them as well because I think it gives them a platform to grow on you know that they they've come up and done all these like and got their face out there got their name out there and the Gym's name out there so I I appreciate you doing what you do as much as you appreciate me coming on so you know what I mean I want to thank you so much it's been a pleasure no thank you very much