IN DEPTH | EPISODE 15 | KIERAN DAVERN

Summary

David sits down with SBG Tullamore Head Coach Kieran Davern. They talk about all things MMA, how Kieran got into the sport, his coaching methods, and much more.

Transcript (youtube_captions)

foreign [Music] 's head coach you've been here for a while you're also at the ADCC for Ireland representative in Ireland so just just explain how you got from the beginning of your career to hear and what happened in between like how would you start in MMA um what I suppose like the I have to probably go back to how we started in martial arts it was like we moved to London so parents brought us to London when when I was about like say one years of age or something like that no work in in Ireland in the kind of like a or maybe like a late 80s early 90s whenever we moved over and uh we're there for a few years and then my dad put me into karate at seven and then like say boxing maybe around seven or eight years of age so we're doing we stopped my brother we're doing like karate unboxing and everything else my dad came from martial arts so I suppose he was just trying to encourage me and my brother to have like an active lifestyle and you know we're doing all sports at the time but uh that was that was the that was the start of the martial art experience and then moved back to Ireland and went away from kind of Combat Sports and martial arts in general I played like soccer at a decent level um and then like say all the Euro Sports that went with so any different sport really to get me over out of the classroom like I was like it was teachers come in and was like who wants to represent School in the Long John I was like hands up who wants to do cross country next weekend the hand was up and it was like discus Javelin uh and eating GA I was just doing everything just to get out of class do you know I mean a lot of sports and that but uh in my later teens then I found uh boxing again I went back to about 16 years of age went back to boxing and then kind of like okay late teens early 20s found kickboxing and MMA and that was it so it was always a life um growing that my house was like very like say martial art and kind of training oriented but that was like say big into martial arts and fault and that and uh it was just I used to see him basically coming home from work trying to gym bag in his back heading to the gym and then after I'd head over and he'd do like say like I said kickboxing or a boxing or whatever it was at the time and uh and then the rest is history is as they say yeah so when when you first came back he said like you you kind of took he went away from it was always because there you went away from it for a while sorry was it because there was not much of a selection of martial arts over here at the time and obviously in the UK you probably had them everywhere yeah so we lived in a we lived in southeast London um which is like say a fairly dense kind of populated area in London in general you can kind of you can get from A to B fairly quick on tubes and everything else so if you wanted to if you wanted to do something you could you could go do it and I was lucky enough that the karate club in London was literally a stone throws away from my house it was like jump over a wall and it was interest like Community Hall where they did Karate and everything else and then uh literally just down there down the road maybe about like say a five minute walk was the boxing club so we were living in between that so that's how that that came about um and then in when we moved back to Ireland and that um there wasn't really there wasn't really much around you know there was um a bit there was a bit of boxing in a few towns kind of scattered and then obviously like I said my parents working and we were in school and it was hard for us to hard for them to drop us into different places but to be honest with you you know when you're younger or not you find different things you're running around chasing women and you know what I mean sneaking into the pubs playing pool and you know all that right so I'm playing sports in general always doing sports but um yeah and then we're and to be honest with you like say we had like say any house that we ever lived in so my dad would have a shed and the shed would like the number one thing that being a shed would be like say weights and some type of like multi kind of uh bench or some gym bench or something like that and a boxing bag and there was always gloves and that's we're always kind of like tipping away not not too serious around like that we're always always involved in it somehow but when when uh we went away when I went away from it say it when we came home I eventually went back to box and then kickboxing an MMA and fell in love with you know Jiu-Jitsu and MMA yeah so when when you first came across jits because everyone says it's a sport that like on the outside looking in it looks so complicated and it is so complicated but they say once you actually get down onto the match everyone says they just fall in love with it like a lot of people do Jason how what was your first impression what was your first experience of I I my my first first night um walking into a hall it was a makra hall you know a macro Hall is no micro Hall is basically it's like basically when you're down down the country so outside Dublin small little towns you know that we have like say farmers and they live like in little small uh like tiny little Villages yeah and like a mocker Hall was set up I think anyway this is this is a one part of it anyway one of the reasons was like say basically for like Farmers to kind of like socialize and everything else okay so they'd have dances and they'll have quizzes and they'd have you know bits and pieces now and I think this is the way they got people like say interacting instead of just going to the local pub years ago in Ireland and there's still a few marker Hall marker Halls that are kind of opened up and uh just especially a small kind of community little Hall and I remember um I was I was uh when I left school I ended up um serving my trade as a as a bricky in storm Mission and um I remember I was working on a site we were building we're blocking doing blocks on the school and I was talking to the crane driver and crane drivers bang on I got on my way and he was like delivering blocks to where we were and we just chat it was a hat you know the handheld yeah kind of cranes I think it was an opener and uh and we were just chatting away and he was like I was just talking about I was following following the UFC and I used to watch like say cage rage and I used to follow the USC like some from Fairly um a fairly young age like I said come home from school and I was meant to be doing Sammy homework but we didn't say extreme sports and you know Bravo and a few different channels and I was watching like say the UFC like the early days kind of early days kind of UFC and then watching the likes of cage rage and any other kind of like English kind of promotion that would have been on yeah channels at that time so I was like I always looked and I was like that was something that was like pulled towards and it was um there was no there was no um there was nothing around you know what time so I was talking to this crane driver and everything else and he said we're talking about MMA and talking about a fight scene and this type of stuff and he said he's a friend in Port leash that um that said trained MMA and and uh I was like can you get a number and he said yeah and I I text them the the guy's name was John ging he was my first MMA and Jiu Jitsu coach and um I text him and he said yeah call over tomorrow night or the next night or whatever and uh I remember I borrowed my girlfriend's car and my car was like falling apart at a time or something like that and I drove over I came up to this mocker Hall that we were talking about and I put me I walked up to the walked up to the door and I could hear like say like like heavy kind of heavy metal music you know this is old school it's kind of like you know I mean everyone I had the music to kind of pump them up back in the day and uh I could hear heavy metal music and I could hear Lads like say sparring or hitting pads like reading out and making all the noises that you would hear you know outside of Thai boxing gym or an MMA gym or whatever it might be and this is like this this Hall was rough now it was like broken there was no lights in the toilets and barely light in the main hall itself and I put my hand on the door and this is a true story and I could hear the noise and everything else and I was like oh it I'm not going in and I was like you know because I you know the the that kind of like doubt in your mind I was like I'll just go home and I was like No And I remember the the words that came in my mouth was just like oh it and I put the door I pushed the handle down the door I walked through the door and I met the people who were there and that moment changed my life you know that was that was that moment there it was like the ham was on the door and it was often been in situations like that as a young lad where you know you're not willing like to walk through the door you know you're like ah I've met a door I met a block or an obstacle in life and I'm like I'm not going to go through it but that was like that was like a that's a good example of actually like said uh doing something you didn't want to do at the time and then like coming out the other side of that door and then it's just like this completely changed my life you know for loads of different reasons you know the the obviously the physical the mental the opportunities that come along with the people you meet and everything else you know so many opportunities and so so many good reasons uh you know it's a great lifestyle it's a great way to live you know so that's that's my that's my first experience of like walking into an MMA gym and I remember when I got on to the mats and you know I was lifting weight and everything at the time and it did a bit martial arts and everything else and I did a bit of grappling and uh I I like was real old school so I was like boxing with a boxer and the boxer bit the head off me dinner part-time I'd had a few kids and everything else but we was doing MMA for a while and so I don't think we're just doing straight boxing was like kickboxing or whatever we bet me around the place and then uh them was like all right Lads we're doing grappling rounds so if we're going to take off the boxing gloves put on a mega gloves or whatever I never I didn't know what a position was or her name was running and I just got like murdered and it just happened you know the whole time and like there's what I do say this to the lads there's one or two things that will happen to you when you come into an MMA or Jiu Jitsu gym um it's a little bit different now you don't get most good gyms you don't get thrown into the deep end straight away you know especially if you know a previous kind of like experience or whatever else but there's one or two things that will happen when you when you when you experience say uh you know training with someone that's actually a trained fighter or a train Grappler or whatever it might be you're either going to shy away from it you're going to make excuses and you're going to say oh you're gonna like ignore it yeah you know ignore it or you're going to turn around you're gonna say I need to know what that did to me and I'm gonna have to learn that and that's what happened to me I was like like those ads wrecked me they don't mean absolutely recommend I was like I need to learn that that's a superpower because I've never felt like that and I was like helpless you know helpless I just said no answer for anything you just tap me it will and I in my head like say same as what everyone else does in the beginning trying to use more strength trying to use more aggression more muscle and it just kept getting me deeper into like session submissions and bad positions and everything else so that's kind of like my first experience and then I went home and my my wife my wife now um she's well she's always been my partner so yeah I've only ever had one wife as well I'm married this year we're a girlfriend or a girlfriend a boyfriend at the time was like I don't know 15 plus years ago and she was like how'd you go on I was like I got battered but I absolutely loved it loved it and then I went to work the next day laying blocks and telling all the boys I found this new thing it's unbelievable and blah blah blah and that was the first experience I had with you know did your friends think you were crazy when you were coming and saying you got the ball experience yeah and they did for years my friends were here so I lived in a smaller town outside Tullamore it's called the Cormac I grew up there so we basically when we moved we moved home from London and uh my we we'd come we we came home from London and said one of my uncles said to my say my mother was like there's a small house here in just while you come back to Ireland it's a stepping stone uh you know you can you can move to wherever you want we were going to move to Galway or Dublin or somewhere at the time and this was meant to be a stepping stone and we stayed there for like 17 years you know what I mean but um so I lived I lived out in that small little town There's a few thousand people I think it was like four or five thousand people in in the town it's about 10-15 minutes away from here and I kind of grew up half half my childhood in London and year and a half out in a small kind of like Village called the karma outside Tullamore and uh Richard no it was unheard of it was just like it was GA and that was it and I was the only one doing it and everyone thought was mental and then my friends wouldn't let me like touch them because every time I try to touch them I tried to strangle them they'll be practicing because they didn't have a clue I barely had a clue at the time I was just trying to figure stuff out you know and ended up just grappling with them so I can get a little bit of extra training and moving around and that but yeah they all they all thought you know they are not all of them yeah maybe all of them thought it was mental at time or whatever else but um and then as you go along I'm sure like people are asking you like it's like anything in life it's like you do see this with everything people maybe in the beginning will ask you like why are you doing that you know why are you doing that and then when you when you get a bit more successful at it and you build it up they're like how did you do that yeah you know and that's why I do set to Lads or not you're gonna have like every reason to quit and you know so many different obstacles and everything else and you've probably heard this like people look at obstacles it's a bad thing it's like oh there's an obstacle I may stop so it's like you've meet in that first door it's closed on you yeah instead of finding a way to walk through that door kick that door in and like say the the biggest thing I read a book recently and it's called like the obstacle is the way if you heard this book no and it's all true like I said the obstacles that you meet on the path like the obstacles are the way like it's not like it's not instead of you as a block on your path like that obstacle is apparently way and that's the way I kind of view it you know what I mean um yeah so that's kind of like my first kind of experience of it and then when you were going in like obviously you were doing the Jets and you're doing the MMA like did you ever think you're going to compete like when you first went into did you want to compete and then how did you feel when you did first compete uh yeah like I I always wanted to come I don't same same reason why most people do it was like I I was a pre-conor McGregor here I saw like a like I I ended up obviously going to SPG and training with McGregor in that one he was kind of like on the way up and that type of stuff so it wasn't so much um it wasn't so much that I wanted to um be a fighter I did I did when I got into it but was more that like I wanted to learn how to defend myself same as any young lad you know I mean I want to learn how to defend myself because it's like that cliche it's like someday someone's going to try to take something from you you know I mean you're gonna have to have the tools and everything to protect yourself and your family and everything else and that's the way I kind of viewed it I was younger and everything at the time I was like no I just want to be able to handle myself and I just wanted to be able to past the time and likes you know I think if you're not doing anything then you just end up like saying the pub Friday Saturday and Sunday and I was like I was laying blocks and bricks on a building site at the time which is which is a good trade but tough trade in Ireland when you have the the weather that we have and everything else and you only get paid for the amount of blocks that you lay or wherever it's unless you have a union job or whatever I know it's different but um it was just it was just to protect myself and it was the past time when it was to um do something with my life and everything else and then when I when I got into it I was so addicted to her like I loved it I was just I was hooked straight away and even even my dad as well have to give him a shout out like say I used to I used to lay blocks for him he did a building company at the time and uh when I when I found out about kavana and SBG in Long Mile Road at the time my dad would let me leave like say work an hour early so be laying blocks all day I could be down the country we don't want to kill Kenny I remember we were working on freshwater in Kilkenny and I bring me training gear and I'd be laying blocks all day two or three hundred blocks depending on what we were doing you could be doing footings or regular house or whatever and my dad would say look we can you can leave at four o'clock whatever he's very supportive and uh and he was like and I was like I'd leave from Kilkenny and I drive straight up to Dublin in the work clothes or maybe trying to try to and head up and uh I train I do like say Thai box and Jiu Jitsu or Jitsu and MMA in cabinets place and uh I'd come home most nights at half 12 and it'll be up 10 in the morning at half six or whatever it was to be on the site at inclenny or tireless or wherever we're working on time 8 A.M and I did that for years you know and then the story kind of changed a little bit but I kept I kept that consistency going just kept showing up every day that was the thing I fell over and then when the recession happened that was my in 2008 that was my ticket out of the building game yeah because I was like I I only I only did it to like one you know I would respect for my dad yeah to do something as in I only did I only got my trade because my dad was like let's get your trade behind you and then you can go do what you want whatever he's very supportive and uh and and so I finished my trade I got my papers and everything else I eventually went on to college to do like say different things with say like Fitness and gym instructor and massage and all this different type stuff over the years and all I knew is that I wanted to be involved in sport but when I found MMA and I found jujitu I fell in love with it and I was just hooked and I was in I just that's that's how I wanted to spend spend my life and that's that's what I do now every day every day my life is just Jiu Jitsu MMA and just getting the lads better and get myself better and everything else and trying to make the gym better so that's it uh you mentioned obviously John and SBG um how did you first hear about John and what made you then go to the gym because you said it was pre McGregor yeah and for a lot of people in the country and a lot of people that watch now would only kind of know MMA from McGregor so obviously you've had enough before but how did you hear about John like who was who was on the scene at the time what intrigued you to go to SBG and travel that distance yeah uh so there was there was a couple couple of different reasons like say one was um one was when I Googled um I Googled say MMA James Ireland I can only find like two MMA gyms at the time one was a Newry and the other one was in Dublin and I lived in a place at the time called or a place called which was an hour and 20 minutes away from Dublin so that's the track I was doing up and down every day when I eventually went to the cabinet's place and um that was one reason because I Googled it and then the other reason was like say my coach at the time he was a blue belt under John kavana and then uh one of the first kind of MMA fighters that kind of inspired me when I was just starting out was a a lad called Rob the dog Queen I don't know if you ever heard of him he's kind of like a local Legend around the Midlands and that boy really nice guy but he when we were training in Port leash he used to he was from Port leash and uh he used to fight out of John's Place in Long Mile Road and in my coach at the time used to train up there and he get like some of the techniques and try you know he was he would get some techniques and he put together and then we'd be drilling this and you know everything else and trying to learn what we could wasn't much on the Internet or anything else at the time he barely had like any like instructions running like ah it's not like the way it is now with BJ Fanatics and just Instagram is like an instructional the whole time um so your man rob robbed the dog Queen remember seeing like a little video of them on like kind of like a fairly like bad quality phone or laptop or whatever watch the time it wasn't great footage anyway but he ended up beating two Lads in the one night and he won it tightly won a battle and uh and I just thought it was unbelievable and then like he came into the gym you know we didn't even have a gym at the time we were like they were boys were like renting out like space and a hall and we went from hot we went we got kicked out of this uh hall because like we'd end up like going to the plasterboard do you know what I mean like there was no padded walls the way it is now yeah and it was like taking Judo match down put them down clean them and then we put them back up after every session and I'm sure loads of people have stories like that nearly like the way you'd see all karate Halls the way they have the timber floor and and if they had mats to put mats down and so on and I seen I've seen Rob Quinn doing his thing and I was like oh this is unreal and then when I looked into uh SPG I I I was obviously watching cage rage and all that Ashley and Daley was fighting she had the pink hair at the time and Kevin was uh coaching her and he had the long hair with the lip person and and that type of stuff and and on cabin actually cornered against me one time I had a match a jiu jitsu match early on as a white Bell against kiramagini you know karamagini yeah he's a well-known GA footballer and manager really nice lady just got his black belt like say a week or two or off uh off of John but me and him had a match uh two white belts or two Mongols two head squeezers and uh John was in the corner uh obviously coroner against me because I was the I was from Portland and mcgeany was training in in Dublin and John's Place and uh we we grappled to a draw you know I don't know if that's what it ended up being it was a draw and so I would have known John like on the scene and I would have known that he was a black belt and he was the only black belt or Joe Scott his black belt at the time or maybe it was around but I don't know what Bill he was at the time and uh when I when I started looking into SBG and that and the way it was taught and the whole like say they have like different concepts about like aliveness and and the eye method and and just different things and about you know different concepts and ideas that I really liked and the way it was being taught and and I fell in love with that and I was like right you know this this is the right kind of fit for me and then I just decided to make the move full time I told my coaching uh or at least I was going to Dublin and uh I went about with ourselves do you know what I mean  told a friend to tell him titing and then he rang me it's only young that I didn't have a clue do you know what I mean but uh yeah I tracked up and down to Dublin uh like five days a week uh up to John's Place say in the morning so then sometimes I go back at night time you know I just fell in fell in love I was addicted to it and um yeah and then and that was it then then it just kind of built from there just you know in the beginning I wasn't that good and then just took me beatings and everything else that comes along with and just kept showing up do you know what I mean and then I'm still here today I'm still competing still come training and still trying to get better and I'm in love with the sport more than I've ever like loved it you know like my whole day outside of the gym is getting myself better getting the lads better getting the gym better and just get more knowledge in all different areas that's all I do you know like I work work really hard I've been the best coach and the best martial artist and the best you know competitor I can do when I or it can be when I compete and I put a lot of our into it and I'm like if there's any coach out there just doing more hours than me I want to know how they're doing it and I don't mean that in an arrogant way or because I could I could honestly watch and this isn't just because we're on camera I could honestly watch 10 11 10 11 hours of martial arts like on a Saturday do you know what I mean during the week hours hours during the week like my days wake up in the morning train coach study training coach study that's it that's my life and then family in that in between you know what I mean so my thing is like if there's a coach out there and he's doing more I'm like I'd love to know how you're doing I take inspiration from her you know I mean because I know what I'm putting in the work you know the same as the way the lads here are putting into work the fighters and the Grapplers and everything else like they they give 100 so I give them 100 and that's the culture in the gym you know so yeah no and obviously the work you can see Sean with us obviously yourself to probably one of the most renowned grapples within the country then you've got the three Lads going to the Euros I want to talk to you like from like the early days to now how it like from when you started to now how advanced has technique got rules that's it just talk to some of the major differences and and what the improvements have been in this world technique like huge huge like say like to be honest with you with grappling just just we'll just use MMA grappling and and regular grappling for an example and you can do the same for striking and and everything else like the amount it's evolved if you're not evolving this is is my opinion on it if you're not evolving and you're still like doing the same techniques now there is some techniques that standard has the time and the techniques themselves are solid but there's different entries and setups and grips and different ways of dealing with different problems but if you're not innovating and if you're still I think like if you're still teaching the stuff that you've taught five five years ago six seven years ago wherever maybe I don't want to put an exact number on it you're going to be left behind you have to you have to you have to stay in touch with the sport you it's like it's like anything you have to constantly like say um you know learn learn new kind of different ideas and you know take inspiration from different fights different cultures different countries and you know and that's just the way I go about I'm sure everyone has their own way going about or going about but even the Jiu Jitsu game for example like if you're even the leglock game in Jiu Jitsu say from like I kind of made uh I got some good wins over the years and got to some good uh you know some good platforms and stages to compete like um over the years through like a certain type of leg lock game and even that leg lock game now is starting to like be outdated at least the positions are great and get and and the finishes are all good and that but because the the the counters and the defense and the escapes and everything are evolving with the with the offense yeah if you don't evolve you're going to be left behind you know so say I'll give you a quick example like say there's a position called the saddle position it's a leg lock position and a few years ago three four years ago say for example you could put someone into that position it was a done deal it was like you had a hay look and it was just all I had to do was put this person into that position it's done like 99 of the time it was done now with the subtle position say the the the escapes have improved and not only of the escapes and have improved the counters have have improved so say for example people for for a while were just escaping it and then they were good and then now what they're doing is like you go into a leg lock entry they'd start to escape but what they do is they counter a backtick so it's like nearly dangerous using a technique that was like nearly like a hundred percent and you get them in they're done you know what I mean but now it's like it's one of these things where I have to change scripts on it to change position on it to shut that thing down that they might follow up on so it's the same with MMA fence grappling you know grappling on the ground for MMA and and everything else um like the the moves the the the like a double leg is still a double leg and a single leg still a single leg there can be slight little adjustments on positions grips and everything else but the entries and the setups and different ways of looking at it I think uh you have to evolve and and in four or five years time you just have to keep evolving with otherwise you're gonna be left behind you see it you see and you see it in all walks of life not just martial arts that's like you know you ever meet the the outlet and he's just like stuck on his ways yeah it's like that I don't want to be the martial art coach it's stuck me away it's like this worked for us 15 years ago and we're doing it now and that's it you know and I'm sure there is some Merit to that you know there is some bread and butter techniques that are like ah this this like I was teaching a technique this morning and I was saying to the lads that like uh this is a move that I learned as a white belt and it's it's one of these moves that has stead what made the whole way up to Black Belt yeah do you know what I mean it's a great little move it's very simple and everything else you know what I mean but the gate I think that the game evolves really fast yeah you know and and I think if you don't evolve it it's you're gonna have a tougher time you see it you've seen UFC every weekend these young Lads coming through it's not it's not just the you and that like so it's it's the way to learn an MMA and the way it's Blended together and you know the great kickers and punchers and wrestlers and Lads like Jiu Jitsu Tron on top of the the wrestling as well they can they can submit people off their back they can submit people on top and you know everything else so um yeah it's unreal you know it's unreal and then and then um one of the biggest things is like access to information so going back to what he was saying like I said when we started out you could like if you've got a DVD or a god like I remember I found a DVD on like Darris jokes and anaconda jokes and one of the friends again with me yeah notice back then right and I was like one of my friends gave to me and he was like have you got that DVD and I was like oh yeah I'll try find it I just kept pushing them off and then he just kind of left me alone for a while and I just like studied this DVD and then like say when I was starting out like say my my go-to movies it like the whole time in competitions was a dash joke yeah someone chewed on me it's all dark now very basic like say back or very basic now yourselves have to be a little bit different everyone's more aware of it they've been exposed to an Apple like it was like that was like if I had found the DVD on leg locks I probably would have been like good at leglock sometime or back takes or whatever but that was a DVD that someone gave me that's all the information I had outside of my my uh coaches and and the training room and and I ranwood and that was it yeah you know yeah so we're in result like because you've talked about how the techniques changed however the likes of the health and safety the shows and the level of the amateur change as well oh huge huge yeah like say it health and safety number one like uh like when we were when we were doing MMA in the beginning it was like it used to be it was Madness it was like it was a Class B Class C class and like when I say Madness it's no reflection on like Annie the top Lads at the time which is the way it was it was the wild west and you know no everyone was trying to figure it out you know and there was Lads that were like uh like there was Lads that were there way before me or a few years before me or whatever you know what I mean obviously cabin and Andy Ryan and you know Tim Murphy and all the other Lads that did it before and Lads up in the north Rodney Moore and all these different odds um so like they they could only work with what they had you know at the time and that but um like we used to get like say courts come in and they'd be like um oh you wanna you wanna fight this weekend and I was like oh yeah what is it or next weekend and it was like oh it's a class so that's like a profile and then three weeks later oh you want to fight C-Class C-Class was like amateur rules basically today but it was two versions of C-Class there was one you could do headshots on the ground the other one you couldn't it's like oh you see class fight this weekend or next weekend or three weeks time uh anyways headshots on the ground or not and they're like oh no headshots they're like okay yeah and then I was like so a class is your pro rules the way it is today b-class was parole rules minus elbows four minute rounds so that's what that was b-class and then so you had five minute rounds for a four for B three for uh for C and the gloves were bigger for C so problems he had headshots some didn't have headshots so you'd just be fighting every week when you should really been fighting in the likes of the MMA leaks yeah and the MMA leaks were only kind of just starting out you know um I remember my first fight like first MF I was in front of like say two and a half three and a half thousand people wow um live on Satanta Sports clean up Maine against a former kickboxing world champion so that was the kind of thing in the beginning you know what I mean um when the decision was a desperate fight like I was like terrible terrible technique and everything else but like uh but to be honest with you I feel that the lives of my generation and before me you know what I mean uh we had to walk certain paths for the young Lads to to come down or to walk those paths eventually because they were they were no I'm not we're not saying we but people before you know the older generation for the younger generation obviously pave out different parts and everything else and uh you know so that that's and and hopefully young Lads can can do better for Generation following them uh health and safety even just if you look at the gym here even like say every single wall is padded you know like top high level you know match like you can't ask for better match um just even the way the place is clean you know just even just talking about gyms like the awareness of like staph infection and you know all this different stuff and the way James are clean they looked after and just hygiene and everything else and and then like even if you talk about like say shows and that like say the the knowledge that referees have the experience and judges and just like even the cages like the cages back then were like literally someone just fabricated something like industry and just threw like a couple of pillows down in the corner and typing with cable dies make sure he doesn't bang his head on that you know there's loads of lads Lads will tell you even Lads that were older than me and that and even my own experience you go to shows and then they'd be like there was a show I remember we went to before um and like it was that the chandelier was like in the middle of the cage so if you're like over six foot tall you're hitting the chandelier you know stuff like this mats no slams No Slam no slams because there's a chandelier you know what I mean so it was the wild west but I think it it it's like anything it's like act now perfect later yeah you know I mean if you're waiting so say if there was someone trying to set up MMA in the country at times like this has to be perfect you'd never get anything done no so I think people had to do what they had to do and make sacrifices whether it was through their own career or you know financially or whatever it might be I think people have to just it was just the way it was maybe at time people didn't even know what was going to go into what it was yeah we didn't like I I didn't I didn't think it was going to be possible to get you know for for Irish lights to get the USC or anything like that you know what I mean and then eventually like I think people start having success on the Nash on scene with you know either the fights were getting better but you'd see like American ex-usc vets be brought in and they'd fight like say a top up-and-comer like say a pro and then the Irish Pro would beat him they're like oh that was in the UFC two fights in the UFC and he just beat him you know and then you've seen a couple you've seen that happening and it was like say a couple of lads then would go away and fight an international fight again so I don't say a french guy or you know whoever it might be and then it'd be be him and then it was like oh we can hang with you know uh Europe and you know everywhere else American and this type of stuff and and then I honestly believe now we're at like say with The Gap with the grappling and and the you know wrestling MMA grappling whatever you want to call it I think like that that's gone now like and my lab my allies are going to prove that the imfs in a couple of weeks time when you see the level of what they're going to do like it's a different level you know they put them up against any country in the world you know you're going to see that in a few weeks time you know and I can't wait to see that out of your your whole the career that you had I just want to pick one or two fights that really stand out you like your favorite finish and your favorite performance that you had throughout if if you have any of the spring I have a few different ones I had a you have two kind of good good little uh stories on one was I remember like John Rana show it was up uh Euro fight night and I thought good lad his name is Mark Begley he's got a cage Contender champion in that like say and he was he was a good lad and uh he would have been he would have been one Lads when I was coming up he was experienced you know and then our patch eventually crossed when I got a little bit older and spent more time at and I remember it was round one and uh I think I went to take him down or he took me down or something but I can't remember I was in half guard bottom or something like that and I remember he just like cracked me with two elbows and like or maybe three elbows but he he cracked me said like a few times with elbows and I could just feel like swelling and I was like oh I can't stay I can't stay here for too long I can't eat my needles yeah saying I just whatever Lodge that was in me I was like no get up and I just remember that was in my mind like get up and then get him I was like no I can't stay here and then I remember uh like say from taking those elbows to like say coming up taking his back and then getting the Finish was was a really nice moment um another time was we were up in Derry and we were fighting with a C-Class fight at the time in the middle of the ears and the bees and all that and I was fighting a hole in town lad and a good like Thai boxer and uh I remember I always preferred like say the grappling on that just by nature or not and I remember that when I walked out we were in the the Millennium Forum in Derry uh and it was chaos it was one of the early chaos when like I said like some McGregor and them were fighting on it and Patty and everyone else and I remember that when I walked out my music was like they barely play me music you know what I mean but we could hear everyone confident in the background and sneezing and everything else and I was like ah maybe something wrong with the sound you know what I mean maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration yeah I didn't I didn't get reception I thought I would have got it and it was a couple of lads from SVG there and now and I got you know people clap and everything else was like four or five Lads there and whatever and uh so then next it was like one of these places where you know we go to the the old Cinemas where you sit down in the sea or even football stadiums you sit down and see people have to see it is so anyway you decide came out they called you man it was a local Town Hero and uh music was pumping so we got base bins over I don't know where you know what I mean and uh it was that he got that much of a reception everyone stood up off their feet and then when they stood up I could remember hearing the clutters of the seats hitting the back of the seat do you know what I mean and then I was like all right okay they're trying to set me up you know what I mean so uh long story short I think it was like we had a bit of a scrap back and forward and it was around uh two and if you if you remember the Millennium form it's like a it's literally like a cinema as in like it goes up like that you know it's tear seat in the hallway Lobby venue and it's like a big they have the cage in the middle it was like a lovely looking venue and um I remember it was like round two or something like that and he was he was a top he was like tough upon him and I remember I threw up a triangle or something zombie back and then I just remember him just picking me up and I was like one of the only times I remember he picked me up that high I remember looking out over the top of the cage and seeing the crowd so I was like Rampage Jackson kind of slammed I was like he's gonna go one or two ways either he's gonna knock me out or he's gone tighter into the triangle then sure but we're about to find out if you know what I mean so he slammed me down tighter into the triangle and and that was good to get that one because it was in his hometown and everything there's loads of little little stories like that um you know over the years and then fighting on cage can hinder getting a couple of wins on that and everything else is an amateur and stuff like that but um to be honest with you I get more as as much as much as uh their great they were great experiences everything else and they mold you into the person in the courtyard good and bad um I get I get more of a trail saying the lads winning you know I just I'm I'm I love competing saying grappling and doing what I'm doing because I'm able to keep that going with the with the cool Fortune to some level um but I'm accorded by nature and just love seeing people succeed you know what I mean and say with the lads and I get like I get as much of a buzz um as they do do German I love seeing or as as much of a buzz as I did if not more than when I was fighting and I know people say that but that's true you know that's how I feel but uh yeah a couple of good stories you know um good and bad okay oh good handbag that's always going to be the good and bad a few mad stories as well sure but uh you know there's a it shapes you into the person you are yeah so when when you transitioned into a coach did you take over this gym straightway what way did it work like because I know you're here 10 years 10 years so was it always SPG Tullamore what was it previously no so uh it's a little bit of a backstory in 2008 the research the recession happened in Ireland and I was laying blocks on the building site and so on and we got let go there was no work country was falling apart for building a new and a lot of other jobs and uh I was like Grant uh for me I'm like this is this I can train full time now in Long Mile Road yeah do you know what I mean and now we didn't me and Charlie Ward were going up film of Peter was going up the time as well and we chair lifts and everything he was always going up anyway we'd share a lift snack because Philip lives in Port Harrington and say um we live where I lived in time so we're passing through that direction but um we'll be sharing lifts now and again and I remember like I said a tree was like I had no money and then even more so what me and Charlie are saying like so because I would have known him all the train with him more importantly each and that over the years Charlie Ward um well we didn't have a penny we were like scraping the barrel and be like can you drive can you drive today because I have no money or no tax on no NCT it was always this it was like remote guards were like oh yeah I remember getting pulled over I was heading up to Dublin one day I got pulled outside uh my medical place called emo I know yeah came down over there's a Steep Hill from Mount melick to Imon and just honor there was a straight road and the guard was there I was driving like a Nissan Miller Nissan Almer time bought for like a thousand quid or some lime green or light green color lovely color yeah and it wasn't by choice I don't even think I could afford I think someone helped me out or something like that time but uh I remember meeting the garden he played no NCT you know barely any tax and he was like well if you know NCT it might be no attacks and I was that sick of making excuses and everything I was just like oh I genuinely can't afford it you know what I mean I was just like I was at Rock Bottom yeah you know even that time like it was at Rock Bottom no money no anything and just trying to pursue this thing that I loved and not knowing if it work out in what way would it work out and struggling like struggling a lot no money like check like looking under the couch so I get two or three quid for a chicken fit roller a brexel or something and uh yeah so then I I remember I was I was traveling up and down to Dublin and I was teaching classes in athlone at the time before I opened this place I was teaching Paddy hoolin was coming down from Dublin he was teaching the Jujitsu class and I was teaching the MMA class party was getting a few quid for obviously traveling I lived down the road and uh I wasn't getting much money to deal was basically like the lads are all paying membership but there's only drop-ins you could keep the money so it was like seven quid a night or something like that yeah so most Lads are on membership so some nights are going to get Norton somebody to get seven quid somebody to get 14 28 quid a great night would be 30 35 quid or something like that yeah and I used to break down like say a lot of time coming home because the car was running on fumes you know this type of stuff and uh Mrs like come out give me a favor diesel or petrol get me going and everything else and the long story short was that was at rock bottom and uh the recession happened and then someone said to me look you're at Rock Bottom I wasn't a good place headspace or anything like that as you you would be uh when you don't have money and you're not able to support yourself and you're living in a small town when it's just like you know people are doubting you and why are you doing that thing and everything else and uh I was like I was I was at rock bottom and I was like right there's one or two things that were gonna happen I might were staying at rockbott when it's going to get worse and I'm going to end up like say the way people end up that don't pursue their dreams and everything else or I'm gonna I'm gonna make this work and someone just said to me look you're at rock bottom you're good at coaching why don't you give it a shot why don't you open up a gym until tomorrow so I told the story a few times but I went down to the it was on the door all the time I went back to the uh went to the back to work scheme and I said to this woman I want to open up an MMA gym Jiu-Jitsu gym whatever she thought was mad you know what I mean like go off and do discourse and do this and just trying to get rid of me you know what I mean I was only a young lad um 25 or six at the time when I opened up this gym and uh long story short she I kept a nine or nine it was one of the first times in my life uh after probably the second time after walking through that door I told you about so that that door is Big not for actually physically or just physically walking through but even just the the analogy of like a lot I found me when I was younger like you you'd start something up or you do something and then the first bit of resistance you got it's not for me yeah you know what I mean I was like the I remember the opening this gym was one of the biggest learning curves of my life it was like because I'd always get to a certain point I'd feel pushback and I was like ah maybe it's for other people you know you could see other people are meant to be wealthy or other people are meant to be happy or other people from New York or London or wherever are meant to have these opportunities because you live in a small town and then if you're listening to a lot of negative people it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna like seep in yeah you know what I mean and at the time I wasn't very aware of you know positive thinking and mind or mindfulness and you know how to think in what way to think and just learning and everything else and uh yeah so I I met your one she kept saying no and then I went in one day it was like the final meeting and I said to look what's the cracker it was only a thousand quid that's what I was looking for a thousand quid like 1000 quid wouldn't buy you four of these mats now you know I mean or five days max that's the truth you know what I mean you wouldn't you wouldn't pay for the insurance for the year on a thousand quid so uh there was a bit of space in a boxing club upstairs and you were gonna rent it out for me rent it out to me for like 300 quid a month or something like that and I said it tier one I was like look can you give me money I want to buy mats I said and she said no no you have to do a course or whatever I said look I promise you if you give me this I'm gonna make this the best gym I can it's gonna be like it's going to be one of the best gyms in the country one of the best MMA and Jiu Jitsu gyms in the country and I promise you I'm going to do something that hasn't been done around this around this like area in the Midlands or anything like that yeah and I I kind of the story kind of went like that and then um I said she said look I don't know what it is about you everybody believe in you and I'm going to give you the Thousand glitter 120 whatever was it wasn't much more than that was like 1100 quid or a thousand quid or something and she gave me the money and then I borrowed another thousand quid from the credit union I opened up the gym on 2000 quid that bought me like quarter of the match spaces here when I had a friend that I started off with in Port at least John gang who lent me some jigsaw mats that I had like green jigsaw mats I had these blue and yellow ones were all kind of pieces together randomly I had a boxing bag in the shed at home and I had a few bits and pieces and I found a box and painted I made like a box jump over and everything else and uh yeah the rest is history that was that was it I opened I taught my first class and some of the lads that did that first cast are still here today are the brown belts and black belts now do you know wondering so take a lot riding and then take a lot of Pride and um you know building something up in in the area that we're in that was never here yeah you know and but to be honest with you when I open it up at the time the reason why I opened it was only trained full-time in Dublin I was like I was get I was getting no money that 20 equator that 15 quater 30 quid would get me maybe a 10 or like say or 15 quid of petrol to drive up and down to John's you know on fuel like driving on fumes and then maybe like say a 10 quid and I remember this and I've said this a lot of time I even said at my wedding speech I got married in January it was like it's all about my girlfriend my wife now it was there and it was like she always supported me it was like like 15 20 quid and I'd like buy eggs beans milk and bread and I put a tender into the car or I'll be able to trade for my train or pay for my uh trainer fee like give them a 10 or whatever it was at the time because there's only so many times you can't pay your trainer yeah and I had nothing genuinely had nothing it's like rock bottom and uh yeah and then it just built into what it is now you know over years of like said trying to improve every area that's that's our biggest thing here to try and improve every single area every day and it's not just people say it is but they don't live by you and I think that's the biggest thing like we genuinely live by it you know we it's like it's it's like it's constant Improvement every day in all areas you know even the color of the gym matters do you know the the vibe in the gym the way you talk to people the the culture in the gym you know the the techniques the details the the way we are on fight there Fight Night the day before the week the build up everything matters you know so we try to improve in every single area you know and that's that's what has the gym to where it is today okay so you've obviously got the boys going over to the euros and like I this is what I want to ask you because obviously you're huge on technique as well but you seem to have a good relationship with voice is do you think it's essential for a coach to be a mentor uh I don't want to say for everything but like someone that they can come to like because you've seen their UPS Downs highs and lows like are you just about technique or are you there for them no like uh oh I'm like we're all in like where where are you like we're a team or a squad like if it's like um if they're in trouble I'm I'm there with them like say if it's in the gym I would a gym whatever it might be whatever it is we're 100 like a unit you know not just the lads that you see but we have a serious team coming through you're going to see a couple ads now make their debut over the next couple of month I'm not going to make any announcements but around shows not coming up and you're going to see like say these lights coming true but um yeah massive on technique massive on you know mindset we've shown that works in the gym that does the nutrition and the snc with them so we try not leave any stone unturned but Mentor it's not that's for me it's not I'm not I'm not looking to not looking to be a mentor or anything like that like right we know the relationship I'm the coach the boys are the fighters you know I mean and the boys coach as well they coach the the younger generation coming true so we're all helping each other like say okay they might learn from me but I learned as much from them as they do for me whether it's just like just talking about fights or it's maybe they've seen a little a different grip or a position and then we just innovate and we play uh it could be like it might be a book or a podcast it could be on like so it's it's a it's a good relationship as in like say we're good friends we're a tight-knit unit and we we would go to war for each other so I mean we would really go to war for each other um the the bit and the biggest thing I think between a fighter and a coach and if you lose it it's it's it's bad like it's it's very hard to come back from it's trust you know we're big on communication here it's like say for example if you're if you're training here on the fight team now it's different for the classes when you've uh people are the hobbyist and just want to go out and train and do their thing and do the best they can in Jiu Jitsu or kickboxing or MMA or whatever whatever it might be but say the competition team the fight team whether it's the grappling team or the MMA team we're very big on um communication so it's like if you're training here and he hit you too hard now there's a bit of friction or whatever I'm just making up a thing or something like that we need to fix that and we don't let Fester we nip it in the bud and we fix it now you know what I mean it's like like if you've uh if you have a problem with me maybe I didn't say something to you or I did say something to you and you didn't like it talk to me let's be let's be adults let's be you know you know grown-ups and let's talk about because I find that most relationships like like our friendships fall apart because people like isolate people or or don't want to have the uncomfort or the uncomfortable conversations we'll we'll have the uncomfortable conversations it's like like they view a fight coming up next month in Belfast you're not putting in the work you need you you know what it is what it takes to fight on this team I could I could literally put 15 or 20 Lads in on shows like say for for the next few months but for us it's quality over quantity there's loads of ads coming true but they have to earn their keep they have to they have to they have to do the stuff that we have laid out we have a structure on the criteria that all the lights have to hit and if they don't hit one of those I would like the five or six of them they don't fight they can keep doing novice they can keep doing Jiu Jitsu they can keep doing you know different things but you're representing all them Lads that are going to imaps you're representing me as a coach to representing the team you represent yourself you represent your family you're representing everything and if you're going to do it over SVG tell them more you're going to be 100 prepared Win Lose or Draw doesn't matter we're gonna be 100 prepared like these Lads go into the IMF I'm telling you it's a completely different level we so most of them the last time they fall was I think Ronan was the last to fight I would hold up and we fought in Premiere FC against Carol McConnell has had like 24 fights he was fighting before rolling and start training do you know yeah so that's how much Roland has caused the Gap in the most respectful way possible to towards Carl is a great fighter great competitor fights every week tough as Nails great lad and I'm sure he's gonna have a great career but you could see the difference with rolling and that's fighting at the time nine months he met his MMA debut nine months and and someone's opponents were fighting like five or six years ago that's when they had their debut well I can promise you that like they that you want to see a huge difference at the eye mask with these all around not just grappling everything makes like well Blended put together mixed martial arts um the the last person the fight was rolling on a premier FC and before that was uh run and and Jordan yeah Ronan I think yeah because Andrew had to pull outs conflict though or not oh yeah you're right yeah yeah sorry my fault yeah yeah we catch cage conflict and then we had Premiere and then we had our with the boys on it but say whichever one of those shows was the last uh the last the last event we did an off season on purpose so it was like there was there were shows contact on contacting us and they were saying like can we get the lads fighting here and there and we're just like look not available we're prepping for imaps and what we did was because they were so active they were fighting every couple of weeks and it was just it was like camp camp Camp it was like right we're gonna have a big a big uh you know without giving away too much we're gonna have a block week where we can work on X Y and Z and it's going to be a skill development stage and in having the you know having having the confidence and having the the mindset and everything else all of us to turn around go we're not fighting we're eye masses when we're fighting you know I mean an app imass will get busy again we'll start with because we're already they're already booked for fights that aren't announced yet you know on all your different shows are announced around Arnold and we're booked and there's there's new Lads coming true that are on the same level as the lads obviously the lads are experienced now you're going to see some really exciting ads coming through I can't wait for you to see Lads and that's not me just saying it's just really exciting I'll tell you there's killers in here that are unheard of that are going to make their debut over the next few months you know six months seven months a year we'll have those larger different stages and that type of stuff but yeah I'm not just saying that look the The Lads are as well prepared as they can be and I would put their MMA game and their overall MMA game and their MMA grappling game against any country in the world you know any country you know obviously like it's it's who gets their game going first and all on the table like you're going to see a different level in your imaps and then you're going to see a huge different level with the lads when they go back on the other scene you know yeah because the IMs obviously is where the best of the best you see the best lucky have come out has come out there are loads of people have come out there so like how proud like when like obviously Andrew had won the the Nationals and stuff like that and what you think in the Nationals as a tournament to to actually pick it because it used to be picked on the different criteria I think that's the best way because you get potentially three fights before you even go away yeah it's great weekend Andrew Andrew is a great story from that weekend he fought uh Friday he fought a guy from uh SPG HQ um Aiden Fagan and uh he got um I think he finished him um fairly early round one or two or something like that and then he had an absolute Baron burner where Frank marred who's been trying years tough tough like Colin Martin's brother or Colin Martin's brother really good lad and Andrew got the show number one in the first way he got to show like his skill in the second fight he got the show like how much he wants it you know there's like a lot of people fall under that type of like pressure and uh and he was just he stood taught at all you know I mean obviously for a coach you don't want to see them do too much of that but he showed like his toughness and how much he wants it his heart and everything else um and then and then the the Solomon fight he thought Solomon that's like you know very well Solomon on the way up was the person that like say the LA the The Lads here would look and go he he's he's one of the top Lads on on the amateur MMA scene and he still is he still is he's way more experienced than everything else and then to go into the finals and then to fight you know say like a person that you've seen that was on a really good level when you were starting out in your career and in and in getting the win you know um was uh and was a it was a it was a great example of like say Shauna's technique his heart and then just sticking to a game plan you know so he shows that he you know he's the heart he's the technique he's the cardio the cardio is huge in that fight and then he was able to like say a show like say that he's able to stick to a game plan do you know yeah no I wish July has the best of luck going forward to the IMs obviously we are going to be watching oh and thank you very much for your time today and best luck with everything in the future and it was an absolute pleasure thank you very much cheers