Taylor Heffernan interview

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Taylor Heffernan is an amateur MMA fighter representing MMA Cork, BMA Cork and T45 in Cork He faces Sean McDermott for the Virtus lightweight title, with Sean coming down from welterweight in an intriguing match up. We speak about bouncing back from his last loss, and winning…

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Part two. Let's go. Once again, I have Mr. Taylor Huffman here. Uh he's going to be fighting uh Saturday week for the Versus lightweight title against Sean McDermott. Sean McDermott's coming down from welterweight to lightweight. So, obviously, he's going to have an extra weight. Now, this is Taylor's weight that he's been fighting at. Last time we spoke, it was just before he fought Nate Mulligan. Uh unfortunately, he lost that fight, but he's been on a two-fight win streak since, and he wants to extend it to three. Uh obviously, he's got Sean in his way. Uh but, we're going to get on to talking about all that. Now, thank you very much for joining me. How are you? And thank you I appreciate your time. >> Yeah, I'm doing great. Thanks very much for having me again. It's great to be here once again. Always is. So, um looking forward to it. >> Yeah, so obviously, the last time we spoke, uh the result didn't go your way against Nathan. Um one thing that was shown between the two of you after was a huge amount of respect, and I remember Stephen Moore actually said to me you were one of the most respectful people that he he'd come across, especially given the fact of the circumstances [clears throat] of your loss that you were like you went to sleep. You didn't have You went to sleep and got up, and then to be so respectful, he said it was just a credit to yourself. And obviously, uh your father mother and father for the way they've raised you. But, in terms of the fight, it didn't go the way you wanted, but was it did you was there much takings away from from from that fight from that loss? >> Throughout the years, and this was always the same in kickboxing. Look, first things first, the fight happened. No excuses whatsoever. Never will be, and you'll never hear an excuse from me with anything. Even if I win and it's a tough fight and it's not supposed to be, you'll never hear an excuse from me. That wasn't me, though. And I said that to you straight away. I remember we spoke shortly after, and I told you I said that was not me. It was a terrible performance. It was 1,000% on my part. And I knew straight away the best way to fix that was to get out immediately. I had no damage, luckily. No physical damage to me whatsoever. So, I said, "How can I be active and turn this around straight away?" and not just turn around like you see some people they they have a loss they'll go and they'll fight somebody that they pull off the street just to go get a win and get some momentum. I was like, "No, what's the biggest high-pressure situation I can put myself in here to show, not just me, but to show people that like no, he is exactly who he said he was. That was just a blip." And that's when I went and represented Ireland and won against the French champion in his home in his hometown, similar to what I just lost doing. You know, so I think that was important to set that narrative straight. I did learn things. You learn from everything. You learn from every win. You learn from every loss. Like you said, I've won two straight now. Both against international opponents. One on enemy soil, one on home soil. You know, we done done them both. And even in those wins, there's things that we took. There's always things to be taken to keep getting better. >> Yeah, I like that as well cuz very few fighters I Gary Rooney stands out because he done it he done it on a sit down if you were me. Uh do you always even look at your picture cuz people think sometimes when they won and especially if they've won impressively they they they won't use that tape to look at what they did wrong. Is that something you actively do? Do you look at every bit of tape whether you feel you were excellent in it or you feel you didn't do well? Do you look at every bit of tape and you say, "Okay, well I was performing really well, but I was still making mistakes." >> Undoubtedly. I'd say if I recorded myself brushing my teeth I'd find an error. So, that's just that's who I am. I always always want to try to get better. Always want to improve. And look, there's going to come a time, I know right now I don't have an MMA belt. That's going to happen. But regardless of belts and organizations and rankings and pound-for-pound rankings down the line when you're on top of the mountain, which I will be, it's a good habit to build that, you know, some people get to the top and they start looking down at everyone coming up. I want to add to the mountain. Do you know? Like when you're the best there is, which will there will be a day where I will be regarded, you have to be able to get better. Otherwise, you stop. What are you What are you going to do? Just stop improving stop criticizing yourself. You know, so I'm my own worst critic. The people around me are a bit more honest. They're They're like bring you down to earth a little bit. Okay, you're not that bad or hey, you're not that good. So, I'm lucky to have those kind of people around me, too. That That's always there. That reality check is always there and we're always working to get better. Always. >> Yeah, and that's one thing I like about gyms as well. Your gym especially cuz your gym, I know obviously it didn't have a great it wasn't a great day for the MMA Elite there recently, but MMA Cork and obviously cuz you have two gyms down with your father, but MMA Cork they strike me as being really honest. Even if I say something, they'll say, "No, well, I think this." But what like what I like about it is you can agree not to agree to disagree, but you can take people's points on board. How essential is it to have honest people around you and not just yes men for you and your career? >> It's crucial. Especially look this early, especially this early we've gotten to set it. You know, that we know we know exactly what's what and who's who and that's something to be honest that I learned from getting to the height of kickboxing. When you're at the highest level of any sport, which I was for 14 years, you know and you see a lot of entourages, you see a lot of guys that will win once and then you won't see them again or oh, he wasn't the same once it got to him. And that's something that I said, "Look, I'm never going to have that happen to me." So, yeah, the guys are really honest, you know, like between Aaron from MMA Cork, between my dad from BMA, between Kieran Brogan from T45, like that group of guys is that's perfect. They're all really honest. They all have their own takes and they're all just have an input that's going to be beneficial. So, then between taking everything on board, managing each one, and with each person, okay, how can I address what you said with you? How can I How can I work with you to address what you had said? And I have all these different things going on at once, but everyone's tied together at the same plan. Communication is very good. That's something we're very lucky to have. And just that group of people, there's no reason why we can't go all the way with that group of people. >> Yeah, and apologies, you've got three gyms, not two. I I I I I I don't even >> Three down. Wouldn't be enough having two. >> [laughter] >> Anybody can have one tailor. Taylor just said, "No, I'm not going to have two, I'm going to have three." But no, one thing that you said there is, and it's actually very, very good, is the communication between because when you've got two gyms, sometimes it can be complicated enough to to for everyone to see the vision for you, do you know what I mean? Sort of way. But the fact you've got three gyms that are able to communicate and see that vision for you as a as a solo fighter is is fantastic and crucial. But obviously you've got this fight coming up, this is going to be for obviously the lightweight title. Um have you Do you Did you look into Shawn? Obviously he's coming down from welterweight, so I'm assuming this is going to be I don't know how tough of a cut it's going to be because I would have assumed Shawn is a big boy, I've been around him, so um are you even focused on what he's going to even is if the cut affects him, or are you just focusing on his skills and this because he could go through and have an easy cut? >> Yeah, it's interesting, you know, one of the guys in the gym had fought him at welterweight, and I think he even made a trip down to the gym there at MMA Cork late last year, maybe. I think I was fighting pretty soon, so we didn't train together much. Um I think that was only maybe just before a fight that I had. To say that I was doing stuff on my own, but um he's a big guy, he was a big guy, you know, I know as far as lightweight's go, particularly amateur lightweights, I'm about as big as they get. I have a cut, like it's quite significant. >> [snorts] >> Um for Paul, that'll be a different discussion as to what weight class, but at the moment, to bring things back to reality, like [snorts] I have a bit of a I'm pretty big. Last time I saw him he was bigger than me. That's a long time ago. That's nearly a year ago. You know, so who knows what he's done since. So I wish him all the best with his cut. I hope he shows up on on fight night of course. I expect to fight him. Um Beyond that, yeah, I've I've seen his skills. I've seen he's around for a long time. He's had a lot of fights. He'd be one of the more well-renowned guys and he'd certainly be a good name on the resume. >> Yeah, no, he he he is a good guy and that's what he actually said to me when I interviewed him the other day. He goes he travels and he trains in court sometimes and he goes every time a show comes to him they offer him a little make court guy and he's like Jesus Christ like he goes but then he goes at the end of the day if that's where the best fighters are I want to fight the best fighters in order to sort of a way. So um obviously he's he's I really like this fight so I want to really want to see what he looks like at that weight and I want to see obviously how you are going to show up in this title fight as well cuz like I've been a big fan of you for quite a while since I seen you on ESC in your first and second fight. Um so I'm really really looking forward to it. How does it feel to be fighting for for a title on Vertus? >> It feels good. It feels right. It feels like this is a good I don't want to say a revenge plan but this is a good time to set things straight. From earlier in the year and earlier in my career where I can go no, he is supposed to be here. But regardless, you know, regardless of whether it's for belts, regardless of whether it's for a medal, it's for anything I am going to be bringing that belt home. That's for sure. I do want the belt. But at the same time and this goes for now in amateur MMA, this went for in kickboxing, this will go for when I'm UFC champion. The belt doesn't make me. I make the belt. And I'm going to set that very very clear, you know. A lot of people they're fighting not their opponent, but they're fighting the occasion. I'm not going to make that mistake. That's something I've learned from 14 years. So, I'm going out there to win. And look, regardless, like you said, Shawn's a nice guy. He is. Like I've seen he's doing some some charity work on what he does, and that's brilliant. Nothing against him. But at the end of the day, I don't care if it's Mother Teresa standing across from me. You're in the way of me getting what I want. You have to be taken out. It's me or you. So, at the end of the day, I'm going in there to win. And there's a belt up for grabs. It's coming home with me, and I'll make damn sure of it. >> Yeah, no, I I'm looking forward to it. And you said something there, and I understand what you're saying, but I'd like you to if you can explain it. So, people that might You said about not fighting the opponent, but a fight in the occasion. Can you just For people who might find themselves in a title fight, it might be the first time. Like you said, you've got 14 years of kickboxing plus 2 years of MMA or 2 big years of MMA on top of it. I know what you're talking about. For people who aren't my experience, can you explain to them what you mean by that? >> When you're high-level, when you're very good, and you know you're good, two things can happen. Either get to your head, or you can go out there and use it. What I'm talking about is going out there and using it. You find yourself in occasions, you'll find yourself in positions. And look, this goes for I don't know if people are watching this that may be thinking it could be useful for them, but more importantly for me now, I know belts will come. Like that's I remember I was talking about this with finishes as well. You don't hunt the finish, finish comes. It's the exact same mentality. When you try to rush something, it's probably not going to be too good. And it's the exact same when it comes to this. It's the same sort of approach. >> Yeah, no, I understand. Cuz cuz like that there might be people that go in, and I always say, when you go into especially in events and stuff around the country, a lot of people get overwhelmed by like I said, the occasion. They start to rush things. They start to go for a finish and you're just like I like the way he explained that. But, in terms of obviously you've got Shawn ahead of you in about a week and a half now. After that, do you have anything planned, anything booked, or are you just going to focus on he's your opponent next That's the That's next and that's it or have have you got anything booked or in the works? >> Yeah, look, of course he's next. First things first, but I I would like two more fights this year. That'll be a busy year. That would be six fights in a year, which is exactly what I wanted. Um so, it's looking like September over in the UK. We've got a big show. We have an offer just after coming in for them. And one more around November time is what we're eyeing up. That could be with that UK show. It could be with the other one. They're two kind of in the running. It could be FCC or Cage Warriors. I'll throw it out there. That's what we're looking at. We're going straight for the big fish now. So, one more on home soil. It would be a nice cap to it. It could potentially be my last amateur fight here at home next week. After that, we go international. And next year, we take the professional ranks by storm. >> Wow, that wasn't the the answer I was expecting. I didn't realize that you were planning on transitioning over. So, here there we go. I was the first to get this news. So, but like I said, two fantastic promotions. Obviously, Cage Warriors and obviously like we know exactly what Cage Warriors is and what it brings to the table for for Irish fighters and European fighters. And then FCC is a show that I quite like there on Fight Pass also as well. So, you'll get that exposure being on it. So, the fact that you've got them in the running is is really really good. So, So, it looks like potentially obviously after this next one, I would assume depending on performance, not even just a win, but a performance. Is that what it hinges on going pro or you want to just get the fight out of the way and then after having a look back and decide, "Okay, it's time to go now." >> Yeah, regardless, we've had this timeline since since the start of the year, you know? And since really early or, excuse me, late last year, we kind of knew what it was going to be. Going to be okay, like it's about one more full year as an amateur and then we're looking all right, 2027, we go pro. But in the meantime, look, I said three more fights before the end of the year, but you know me, I like to stay busy. So, I'm not going to close any doors, either. If other opportunities come in, who knows? There's a kickboxing world championship there in October. I might get bored and mess around a little bit, so I have to be busy. I like being busy. I like fighting. That's That's what I am. You know, some people call themselves fighters, but they're actually just influencers. Other people just like training. I'm a fighter. Fighters fight. I'll be busy. And then next year, it'll be time to go. Let me take the world by storm. >> 100%. I see that's what I like. I remember when we put out about the tournament, even before your father got to me, you were you were straight and you were like, "I'm in." And I was like, "Bro, I don't I knew like my dad's going to say yeah, don't worry." So, I just texted him and he was like, "Yeah, no, I was about to text you." And like that, it was it was hard to fill. And then see, especially with matching, I see it now as well, people put themselves forward, I get them asked to do it and then they're like, "I'm not available." It's like, "Well, what did you put yourself forward for?" And look, sometimes it happens that we obviously we obviously had to take change the date of our show because there's four in November uh within 2 weeks. So, we moved this to September. So, that also has a lot to do with it, but I like that that that fighters fight. One thing I want to ask you is obviously kickboxing like that, you could have tournaments, you could be fighting two or three times a night, four or five, whatever it may be. With MMA, like there's not as many it's not as active as kickboxing. Is that why you get bored because you it's not like you can go from one to the next to the next like every two or three weeks. It's sometimes it's there's been a massive gap really in the past couple of months. Is that why you like to keep busy because of there's a lesser amount of fights or shows in MMA sometimes and if people don't seem to fight as regularly. >> Definitely. Definitely. And I think that's something I'm going to have to come to terms with when it comes to professional because obviously you can't fight eight times a year. But like even for this year like this would be my sixth fight. But we had fights canceled at the very start of the year that were confirmed way ahead. Like I could have had seven or eight fights in actuality this year plus a jiu-jitsu or competition or two and the kickboxing championships. So like I'm just used to being busy. You know, there's no point I train I train harder than most professionals. I know that cuz I've trained with professionals. I'm full-time. What's the point in doing all that training if you're not going to go out there and actually perform? What are you training for? So that's the thing like I touched on a while ago. A lot of guys fall in love with training and I think that's what you see with some of the pros. They fall in love with I'm I'm really good in the gym. That's great, but like why are you good in the gym? You're supposed to be fighting. You're supposed to be competing. You're supposed to be winning on a stage. Not just in the gym. So like look, training's really important. We train very, very hard, but we do it for a purpose and the purpose is to be ready all year round that if there's a fight you're available. That's just that's our philosophy, you know? So even the first year as a pro, that could be busy. I might have five or six fights again. Who knows? Why not? >> Yeah, no that that would have been a pretty active year cuz you look at most I think the most I've seen is maybe six fights in a year from a professional, but that was a crazy active year from them as well. You did they kind of average about three. I'd say that would drive you mental only having about three fights a year cuz that's one every four months. Like and if you were doing it as a obviously I know there's not much of a living out of it but if you're doing it as a living, that's four or three paychecks that aren't really you know it's just they're not going to be great until you get to a higher stage. So you wouldn't want to be doing it for a living you want to be doing it for the passion which you do. It's like How are you going to try and counter that when you go to pro that it might not be you can't be as active. Have you something in mind for it or is it just something that you you learn over time you think? >> Yeah, that's something like patience is a virtue that I've been taught over the last few years, you know, and over the years with injuries and things like that but particularly since fully crossing into MMA you can't fight as often. It's just the opportunities aren't really there. So I think even with pro like in reality yeah, I want to be busy next year. I want to have four or five pro fights maybe six. Perfect. That's a busy year. It's a great start. Puts me in a great position. It accelerates me to getting where I need to go. But once you're in the UFC you're going to have what? Four year? Four year is a busy year. That's like a generally busy year. And then once you're higher ranked or you're champion it kind of goes to three like two or three is what you see from most of them. Now I'd like to be busy over the years. But the most important thing especially once you get to that stage and it's something we've started already in the last two years is how are you upskilling in between? I think George St. Pierre touched on this before as to why he'd only fight a couple times a year so he had time to adapt and change. If he fought say four five six times a year he'd be the same and they'd get used to him and start adapting. Whereas we've implemented like camps abroad. Went to Bangkok last year for two months in two different occasions. This year I just got back from a wrestling camp Tbilisi, Georgia. I was freestyle wrestling with some of the best in the world. I was doing and judo with specialists, and that's different looks that you're not going to get everywhere. Those are things that just make you better. So, I think that's the answer to it. Is use those periods to upskill, to get better. And then by the time your next fight comes around, you should be significantly improved. >> Yeah, cuz fighters have said that to me that when they were like fighting eight, seven times nine times a year, that they didn't feel like they were improving. And then so, their gym started taking blocks of you'd be active for three or four months. You might take two months just to improve on skills. So, like your last fight at the end of that period, when you come back to the next one as an amateur, you know how much you can improve in in a certain amount of time that you're a different fighter. So, when they watch tape on you, you're a different fighter when they come back. But, I really like the fact um was that planned that you would go and you would uh go out there and you'd you'd go to these wrestlers? Obviously, because you've got the kickboxing, you're going in and training with freestyle wrestlers, like like I said, some of the best in the world. Is that something you're looking at the different areas that you feel that not that you're lacking in, but you can improve on? So, you went, right, I this is where I feel I can improve on, and I'm going to go focus on this. Was that Was that the plan this year with to look at bits like that? >> Yeah, undoubtedly. And that'll always be the plan. And it's the same with striking. It's not like I'm just uh okay, I'm good at striking now, so I'll leave it be. That's what a lot of people do when they cross over is, okay, I'm good at striking, so now I'll just catch everything else so. Like, no, you have to keep getting better at that, too. I'm still training with the best kickboxers in the country. I'm still staying sharp. I might do a championships later this year. Let's see how sharp I still am in that. You know? So, yeah. But, to come back to it, like with the wrestling and stuff, we know what everyone's going to try to do. It's not a secret. Like, at my weight, and especially when I go pro and you take two more ounces off my gloves, people are going to start spontaneously falling asleep when I touch their chin. That generally leads to takedowns being shot at you. So, I know what's coming that way. We always know what's coming, but we want to be in a position and I want to be in a position, and I feel like I am in one now, even though I'm starting to see it and you've seen it over my last two fights, where I'm not the victim when it comes to grappling anymore. I can implement the grappling and beat you that way. Like now I think there's very few people can beat me there. And I've shown that in my last two fights and I've improved significantly since then. Through the camps away, through more time with my coaches, where now I can I can beat you anywhere. Now it's like, "Oh, he's not just a striker anymore. You have to seriously respect his grappling or he'll catch you." >> Yeah, now Hunter, I'm like that as well because a couple of fighters done that. So, a lot of people are going to look at you and go, "Right, he's striking." And it's going to be kind of if they go in and they don't realize how much you've leveled up and then they get onto the ground and it's like, "Oh, I'd actually rather be on my feet here." And then they get back to the feet and it's like, "Okay, I don't know where I want to be here." Is that kind of what like Are you still presuming that people are going to look at you as just a kickboxer even though, like you said, you've you have improved in those areas and and especially in your last fight. Um do you still presume that people are still going to look at you as a kickboxer and underestimate your grappling? >> Definitely. And look, regardless of how much someone says otherwise in the build-up to fights, even in the future, I don't know what's being said now. I haven't heard anything. Just throwing it out. People are always going to think that. 14 years of kickboxing at the highest level, regardless of how good his wrestling is, you know what he wants to do to you. Like you know I want to beat you. And I'll do whatever way I think is the best way to do it. Whether that's keeping it on the feet cuz every second they spend on the feet with me is dangerous, or whether it comes to it and you're going, "Oh, I'm on my back. He was just a kickboxer. What happened?" And I live for that little moment of panic. So, whether that happens on feet or on the ground, whatever it is, the best path path to victory is always the goal. >> I have a feeling what's going to happen now is people are going to underestimate you, and you're going to get a lot more of your finishes by submission over the next couple I just I don't know why. I just Arman Tsarukyan, he's gone pro now. He was considered a kickboxer, yeah? Every one of his amateur fights were all due to people taking him down and thinking he couldn't grapple, and he subbed them. So, I think something similar could could happen here, but I don't think Sean McDermott, and especially with Team Takedown Decky there, I don't think they're And they've seen you up close and personal as well on their show. So, um yeah, no, I don't think they'll underestimate you. I think you and Sean is a cracking fight. I really hope to be there in person. I think I was talking to Jerry, hopefully I can get up there. I just need to find a way up. I think I can go up with Jess, maybe, but I would love to see you fight in person again. I'm going to let you go. It's been an absolutely fantastic conversation, as per usual. Uh thank you for your time. Is there anything you want to say before you go? >> No, just look, thanks for having me once again. Great to talk to you, as always. Great to check in before uh the possible press conference this weekend, and obviously before Vertus. Um just to everyone who supports, as always, to the close circle around me, you know, um thanks very much. It's much appreciated. There's always going to be people going the other way, but they don't deserve much time at the moment. Um really looking forward to next week. Let's go get it. >> Perfect. I can't wait to see you fight in person again, and best of skill, like I said, you and Sean is an absolutely cracking fight. Uh I love the fact he's moved down to lightweight, cuz I think at lightweight as well, you've been so active that there's like you're running out of experienced guys to fight at lightweight as well, and and like you said, he's well renowned, obviously, in the weight class that he he's currently he's he's been fighting in, and then now coming down as well, you might see a new look to him, and I really really I'm really excited for this fight, just to see how things turn out, see how he looks at that weight, to see how you are with the rest of them, see who does he initiate, do you initiate the grappling. There's there's so many factors to this that is exciting. So, I can't wait to see it. Thank you very much and enjoy your evening. >> Perfect. Thanks very much, Steve. Enjoy it.