I Wanted To Be A Professional Mountain Biker

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Combat Confidential #027 - S4E1 - Shane Mullen The Professional Mountain Biker Join us in this exciting episode of Combat Confidential as we sit down with Shane Mullen, a skilled bantamweight fighter and striking coach with an impressive record. Shane shares his experiences…

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Mark my words, by the end of this show, coffee's going to be on this shirt. Yeah. All right. Everyone, excuse me. Uh hey everyone, welcome back. Uh this is the inaugural episode of season 4. And today, uh my friend, a bantamweight, fighting fighting out of SBGHQ, he's the striking coach. He works with the Train Alta program. Uh he's fought previously on Cage Legacy, Clan Wars, among many other things. He's a Irish K1 champ. Yeah. Um and as he just mentioned to me, you have your pro debut Yes. coming out uh December 8th for the is the IUR Championship. Yeah, IUR. And Newry, right? Exactly, yeah. Like yeah, so uh hopefully by the time this comes out, uh I can have some link details uh for tickets and everything uh for yourself. Yes, definitely. awesome. So, Shane O'Malley, Shane O'Malley. uh welcome and thank you very much for coming on the show. No problem at all, bro. Delighted to be here. Right on. All right, so look, um a little bit for those uh the viewers that are seasoned in this, um every season I kind of do something a little I kind of switch it up a little bit, just interview style. Um like first season was very much just like chill conversation. Um and then was it second season was a bit more structured. Last season, um I focused specifically on just kind of asking um just a really a couple question like I I asked a bunch of like uh um like quick answer questions. Okay. Um but then uh after that I focused on just literally, you know, two three questions that I kind of asked everyone the same just cuz I wanted to kind of get an idea of how everyone was feeling. This time's going to be a little bit different. Um I got a a few sections here um where we're going to focus on, you know, where you grew up, uh your background, Brilliant. um you know, personal growth, development, life outside of MMA, stuff like that. So, Yeah. uh I hope everyone enjoys this new format. Um so, let's just let's get started here. Of course. Um so, tell us uh where'd you grow up and what was your childhood like? So, originally I I've moved around a bit. I originally grew up in Ballybrack in Ashlawn Park, and I stayed there until I was about 7. It's a bit of a mad spot. Um me me and dad didn't want me growing up there. So, we moved out to Wicklow. Um I was living out in Kilpedder from uh probably the age of like 7 till 10. Never really like settled there. Just kind of like um I was still in school in Dublin the whole time, so we spent Yeah, I spent me whole time. We'd go to me nanny's after school. Never really I would basically just slept in Wicklow. Like I could never spend any time there. And then we moved back out of Wicklow um for what? Probably like 2 or 3 years. I'd lived around like Monkstown Farm and Sallynoggin. And then we moved back up to Wicklow then after me we were living across me nanny passed away. We were living across from me granddad um for like the 2 years afterwards. And then he passed away and then we moved back up to Wicklow. And since then, since about 12 now, I've been living out there. And obviously now I live I moved up into the gym now, so I've been moving around a bit. But um I I started off originally I would have been 13, I'd say, when I started Muay Thai. Um what kind of like built into that was I got jumped when I was 12. Yeah, I was walking back from school and there about like some like 19-year-old jumped me. Really? Yeah, yeah. I got butchered and uh I was left all right, but I got like like belted in the head and all. Like it was it was a bit disorientated now. What prompted that? Um some [ __ ] junkie wanted the money, bro. Oh, okay. And then and I was just a little kid, like and I'd got into like growing up in like areas like Ballybrack, Monkstown, Sallynoggin. Like I'd got into like little fights even when I was in Wicklow. Like I got into fights, so as a young lad, like you're always thinking of how to handle yourself, like Yeah. And then as soon as I kind of experienced that getting jumped with someone so much bigger than me, I was like, all right, I need to like properly learn how to defend myself. And me mate up in Wicklow, uh he was doing Muay Thai at the time and he invited me down to a session. And I went down. I was doing it for probably 2 months. I was also playing football at the time. And there was a goalkeeper and me mother already paid the fees for football for the year, so she was like, you don't have any more [ __ ] money for sports, like Yeah. So, I was like, all right, I had to knock on the head for a bit. And then when I was 15, I went back. The gym had changed and everything just [ __ ] I just went kind of flat out. I was still doing football a little bit, but I really really focused on Muay Thai then. And I think within 3 weeks I had me first fight. Um I got Yeah, it was a mad one. We were woke up to a I was woke up to a phone call from one of the lads and he was like, check the group chat, like the team group chat. And we hadn't even been added to the thing yet. And then I went on to me phone and one of the lads uh is his [ __ ] his brother he he got run over by his brother basically in a car and he wasn't able to fight. It was the night before the fight. So, he had to pull out. I jumped in and I went down. I fought. Your man ended up being about like I think like 8 kg heavier than me, so they just made it a demo. Yeah. And then I had my official first fight the next day. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. So, I got a very quick start into fighting. I um It's good to kind of get just thrown into it like that, you know. Yeah, exactly, yeah. I didn't really get like But obviously you really enjoyed it. So, you were I had the I always say to people like it's a bit different now. The level's so high that you can't just throw people in after 3 weeks of training, like you know what I mean? Nobody is able to to jump in and fight that soon. 20 weeks. Exactly. Exactly. Like the Alta program, yeah. And uh you and especially if like there's not many people that will come and they'll join a gym and they'll do Monday to Friday every day. You know what I mean? Yeah. If you're doing that, you're going to get good a lot quicker, like you know what I mean? That's where the Alta program works, but and especially you're you're going to compete against somebody who's only been training for 20 weeks as well. When uh when it comes to fights nowadays, you never really know how long someone has been training. That's true, yeah. You know what I mean? So, from a like a matchmaking point of view, as a coach, it can be a little bit difficult that way. You know, look, uh tell me a bit more about your community cuz you Okay, so you said you lived in Wicklow. You didn't really spend any time there. So, you're at your your grandmother's house. Yeah, me nanny, she lived in Monkstown Farm as well. So, I stayed I stayed around there a lot. Um Was there anyone in there that kind of helped you form your idea of you know, looking into I'd always been fighting, bro. I was a little bastard. I was a mouthy little [ __ ] as well, like I was [ __ ] it was just I had to learn how to fight from just talking too much and people just hit me, like so that I picked up fairly quickly that, like as soon as I I'd say it was around 4 or something when I first probably started like really getting into like what would you what would have been WWE back then? Or maybe it was WWF still. But I got really into that and then I'll never forget I think it was like 7 or something when and I went to a I went to a WWE event over here. And me dad hated it. He [ __ ] hated wrestling, like and he was always telling me it was fake and I never believed him or anything. And we were at it and and we were being a little bit off, maybe I don't know. But he uh I seen something where uh like I looked at the perfect angle to [ __ ] see it see how fake it was. It was like the Great Khali and John Cena and the Great Khali went to hit him with the big boot and Cena dropped and his foot was about like a meter and a half away from him, bro. It was ridiculous, like. And I looked at me dad and he just like looked down at me and he was like, told you. Aha, man. And I was like me heart like [ __ ] dropped. I didn't even want to be there for the rest of the show. And then about 2 weeks later, me cousin Jay showed me Anderson Silva. And I was like, is this real? And he was like, yeah, it's real. And I was like, we need to do this, like. And that was when I kind of got addicted to MMA and UFC and all. That was like me first introduction to it. Right on. So, I was like probably I was I was in an area where like fighting was always like kind of normal, like you know what I mean? Like everyone kind of fought, like you fought with your mates and all that. It was it was never a big deal or anything, but I never I never seen anything like the UFC before me cousin showed me. Organized. Exactly. Exactly. And I didn't even know that that [ __ ] existed. As far as I knew, the closest thing you could get to like a real fight was the WWE when I was a kid. You know what I mean? And I always had a real big interest in being like I want to compete in this. I don't want to just watch it, like Yeah. I mean? That was something that was in me since I was a kid. And I kind of by by the time I had looked into like MMA gyms and all that, actually I remember we were still living down in um I was still living down in Dublin. I would think I was in Monkstown when I first found SBG. And it was just it was still like probably like an hour away from me. You know what I mean? So, it was like there wasn't a way I was going to get there. And then I told me mother the fees of it and she was like, [ __ ] off. And that was years before like the prices even went up for gyms. You know what I mean? And it was probably I'd say I'd say when I first started Muay Thai, I kind of started to drag my way into like, all right, I'm going to find a way to get into MMA from this. Got you. You know what I mean? But watching people like Anderson, it was like what got me addicted to the whole striking side of it. You you I mean? Like, it was like even I think when I was younger from I was watching like WWE and stuff, I never really understood how fighting worked. I'd kind of like, if I was in a fight, the whole my whole thing was like smashing them and then taking them down. Like, do you know what I mean? And it was kind of like the the usual way like that like fights would have went for me. I'd have never been like really like perfecting any area. Do you know what I mean? Like, you're only a kid. Like, you don't think of it like anything. You just use it like what you what you what you saw. What they tell you not to do. Yeah. Um okay, so did you go to What were you like in school? Did you So, you traveled around a bit. Were you in different schools and everything as well? actually I I was fairly lucky. Um it was mad. We moved to Wicklow, but we all still like me and my sister went to school in Dun Laoghaire even primary and secondary school. And then me dad and my mom both worked in Dun Laoghaire. Okay. Me dad was a taxi man at the time. He worked around Dublin. So, we were all still based in Dublin. So, we were still going to the same school. I was I done like decent in school from like a grades perspective. Like, I was never like [ __ ] terrible, but I was constantly like just a little bastard like getting in fights and just [ __ ] like having trouble with people. It went cuz I grew up in So, the estate I grew up in was fairly like rough like and me mom didn't want me going to school there. There was a school like literally we lived in like what would be a courtyard. So, say like when you went into my estate it was like rows of houses each side. And at the end of my road there's say like two houses and two houses across from each other. And then there's a school right beside that. So, it would have been like a 14-second walk from my doorstep. And my mom drove me down to like Dun Laoghaire to go to school. And it was grand. The only problem was all the kids were from a completely different background than I was. Do you know what I mean? Came from a different area. The [ __ ] dads drove Mercs and all. They'd talk different than they act different than they teach you different. So, we got like kind of what would you call it? Like, I got in a bit of trouble over that because people would say something to me and I'd just react like Yeah. And I had one or two one or two friends that I'd be like I would have been close with back then, but we were like killing each other in school. And we got in trouble a few times. Never got like suspended or expelled. Got a few letters sent home and all and like things threatened. Stern warnings. Yeah, yeah, well, it was always good with like I could always play the guilt card like and like play it well. Like, I was a tiny little kid, man. I was [ __ ] like the one of the smallest in me class like. And so, anytime I'd get into a fight me uh me principal at the time when I'd say for like fourth, fifth, and sixth class, she was like [ __ ] like 4' 2" bro. And I remember going to her one day after I got into a really bad fight. And then I got brought into it. And she was talking about like [ __ ] expelling me like and [ __ ] me out of school. Like, [ __ ] like ran some bloke's head into a wall or something. It was [ __ ] terrible. And uh and he was me mate as well. We just got into a fight. And uh she she started like losing it at me. And I was like uh I started like getting upset and all and I was like, "You started calling me small and like you" And I was like, "I get bullied about being small." And then she just was automatically like a whole [ __ ] was like like she would bully Paul. And she just switched into this really like soft person and was like, "Oh, he was the exact same." And I was like, "Never getting in trouble with her again." Do you know what I mean? Yeah. The first time sussing like how to kind of manipulate people. And then then that was probably the last time me getting in trouble in school after that cuz I'd kind of anytime a teacher had sent me out or sent me down to her, instead of her just like shouting at me and going on a mad one, she'd sit down and like chat to me. And then that worked out in me favor. Yeah, that's good. I I think that uh I think teachers or adults in authority positions over kids probably learn a bit from from that. It's shouting doesn't always work. No. Some kids need it. You know? Um but I think just being able to sit down and try and have a conversation and treating these, you know, young adults as adults is probably the the way to go. And then yeah, and if um I think you're much more likely to have a positive outcome on that. Definitely. Definitely. Um so, you played football. Yeah. Did you have any other hobbies as Um I used to I had this whole thing where I wanted to be a professional mountain biker. Yeah. really big into mountain biking when I was probably it was just before I started fighting. It leads right into my next question here. Yeah, it was probably just before I started fighting. I'd say about 14 or so I got into it. And I had an uncle who was really really good at it, Mark. And he'd basically been like building tracks and all for years. So, I went up to a few of the tracks that he'd done. Then got like a hardtail or I had a hardtail bike at the time and then got a full suspension bike after like saving up for a bit. And then kind of took off with that. But as soon as fighting kind of came around I knew I needed to knock that on the head because it was like say Try easy to get hurt doing that. training Monday to Friday and then you go out cuz it was living in Wicklow. You'd go out like literally 10 minutes down the road and there'd be really good tracks. So, Ballinastoe. Ballinastoe, Ticknock, and then there was Delgany woods beside me had some like decent tracks that'd be like kind of like beginner level like. Do you know what I mean? And you'd be going down there and it'd be good, but one mistake you're spending the whole week in bits like. Do you know what I mean? Not able to train properly. So, I had to get knocked on the head. Do you still do it at all? No, no. I cut kind of everything out that like can potentially bring injuries. Do you know what I mean? No, I used to be big on mountain biking as well before before I had kids. Uh Yeah, yeah. And the reason really that stopped is because just time. You don't have time anymore. Yeah, it's a day. It's a full day. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it can get expensive even if you have a bike. Yeah. You know, like the you want a lift ticket, you know, to try and get Or like I don't know. I was up the gap in you know, the gap. Um It's right next to Johnny Foxes. Yeah, yeah. Um that place is awesome because they have lifts. They're the van. that brings you up. Yeah. And then, you know, you want the van obviously, you know? And like that's expensive. Cuz the cycle up kills you. Yeah. And then you like even if you are there for the whole day, unless you're extremely fit, you're only getting like, you know, four or five runs down. Yeah, you spend 20 minutes cycling up, but it's like 90 seconds coming down. Do you know what I mean? It's [ __ ] Whereas with the van you get like a dozen times or more. Literally. Literally. It's brilliant. Uh uh that's cool. That's cool. Um What's something people might not know about you uh before you began training? Ooh. I'd say a big one is the fact that getting jumped is what brought me into the sport. Okay. Because Is that something you haven't really talked about before? I think I've talked about it maybe once or twice, but never really like in depth. I think like that was like a big a big thing for me. And it was also what made me not cuz when I first came over to MMA there was like from Muay Thai and K-1 there was a big thing of like [ __ ] all this grappling stuff like and people shooting on me and trying to take me down. I'd wanted to go back kind of nearly very soon to striking. And I was like, "This is where I feel like I excel." But then the same thing that made me want to keep doing Muay Thai after I getting jumped and like knowing that I needed to learn how to defend myself was this is an aspect like the grappling side is an aspect that we don't know yet. So, what happens if I have great striking and some bleeding mild over and bloke happens to me there. Do you know what I mean? They can take me down. So, it was always a lot of my like um drive for wanting to learn how to defend myself and be able to be like very controlled everywhere came from that scenario of getting jumped. Do you know what I mean? And that kind of was what built all of this for me and built like the drive to actually go after everything. Do you know what I mean? I think that's probably the biggest the biggest thing that a lot of people still like I've probably only talked about it two or three times, but nobody really knows about it. Well, yeah, no. It's It's a tough situation. It's like you know, your coach. Yeah, yeah. Uh John Kavanagh. That that's what prompted him to start as well. Yeah, yeah. He was he was assaulted. I think it was in front of friends or something like that. Yeah, girlfriend or something. Yeah, and you know, that's what prompted him to start as well. So, um it's everyone should know how to defend themselves, you know? And then I think if you have a bit of training, it kind of gives you a bit more of a confidence to not even approach other people like that. Exactly. Exactly. If you have this confidence about you, then you're you're like I think you're somewhat less likely to target. Or no, it's not that. It's just like you're you're less likely yourself to be, you know, kind of that uh that type of individual who would want to target someone else. Like when you have an outlet to, you know, get all that stuff out of you. And then two, like you you just know, you know, it's just something that And you know how bad things can go quickly. Like, everybody who's been in the gym has seen someone get hit bad like. Do you know what I remember the first time I saw someone get knocked out cold. That was scary. I thought they were dead. Yeah. Legit thought they were dead. Yeah. And I just I remember having like mini panic attack. Just like, "Oh my god, that guy's dead." And then he kind of started moving again. I'm like, "Oh, thank god." Yeah, yeah. It was it was so scary. Yeah. I had that shock before I fought in a like a tournament. It was the Dublin Open. Rob Carry run it. And then it was like three fights in one day. And the second fight I'd thrown a body kick. And I broke I think like two or three of the man's ribs and I came down and it was in like I think it was in the basketball arena and there's like like a second level of you and and say like my dad and my sister were up there and I went up to them afterwards and I came back down and one of the guys I trained with my at the time she run up to me and she was like that bloke you just fought over there on oxygen and all like and he was like taped up and all and like on like a stretcher and stuff and I would like saying that and I was like and I done that to him. I didn't even know I didn't know that I was fighting him at the time but I was sitting there and I was like like asking the doctors and I was like he can't be all right and all and they were like yeah yeah he'll be grand he just can't really breathe at the minute and I was like Jesus it was kind of like an eye opening moment for me about like how dangerous I can be you know what I mean that you never really you see it in the gym you see people knock people out or you drop somebody or whatever but like to actually physically like put someone like sitting there on oxygen and I was like oh [ __ ] you know what I mean real eye opener. Yeah definitely it's really shows like to be fair you don't even need to be that skilled to do that you know like anyone really anyone can do that you know it obviously with training it's a lot easier to do but you know and the training part is what really kind of makes it make you understand the danger of it. Yeah exactly exactly. How did you find your gym? And SPG how did you you live there now how did that happen? So basically I originally been doing Muay Thai and my coach I had kind of got to a stage I think I had said to him I was like I'm not sure I had a few fights and I was like I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to come as consistently just cuz like I was only I think I just turned 16 who was your coach? Dara McFall tricky guy he was pure Muay Thai and K1 and I never I I hadn't really like got to like getting a job or anything yet I was like still I was like applying for jobs and all but I hadn't got anything and obviously I lived in lived in Wicklow like so there was not a lot around which you know what I mean and um we what was it? We went and ended up ended up telling him that I was probably going to have to maybe take like a month or two off until I got a job and he was like he'd got one of the boys a job one of the your fighters in the kitchen he was a head chef as well and he got one of the lads a job as a kitchen porter and then he got me the job to keep me in the gym and just kind of left your man off and then then that was like my first stage into like properly being full time and I knew I was like all right now I have me own money coming in now I can buy all me own training gear buy all of that that was when I properly properly started dedicating to the gym then 16 yeah and I didn't I didn't know from my first fight this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life and I knew it 100% and cuz I was I was addicted to it and I ended up through mad how everything like the little things all lining up my friend Andy he worked in the Parkview Hotel which was the hotel that I was kitchen porter in and my gym in Greystones at the time eventually closed down and Andy was training out in SBG in Tallaght so he asked me that I wanted to go out with him I was meant to go around I was training in King Kauri's gym in Monkstown Warriors I was training there for only like a few weeks I had a fight coming up it was meant to be my last amateur Muay Thai fight and then I was going to go pro and then that whole show that I was meant to fight on got like pulled the whole show didn't go ahead so Andy asked me if I wanted to come out to try MMA and on the first day there I met Dave Roach and then that was when I was like Muay Thai's gone I need to focus on this and from there then what was it I was probably there maybe a year and a half two years could have been longer SPG in Tallaght Yeah SPG in Tallaght two or three years maybe it goes so [ __ ] quick when I try and look back on it and then Dave got brought over to HQ cuz the pro team had got so big John had asked him to come over and he brought myself and like one or two other fighters that were there as well that were on like the pro team in Tallaght he brought us over and then that was where we got introduced to John and it's all [ __ ] what that was probably that was probably six years ago now maybe maybe four years ago yeah and then then everything kind of took off from there with MMA. Was there um in your pursuit of this has there been like a specific person who's kind of inspired you or motivated you specifically? I would always say like the person who got me into fighting was Anderson Silva just watching like how he like put people in the Matrix like it was like they just it was like the Forrest Griffin fight and all like I I like I have a book written on Anderson Silva at this stage like like literally a book written on him like it's it's amazing how how he set everything up and all things I didn't notice at the time obviously but the more like I've got educated in the sport and like my fight IQ or or whatever you'd call it has improved that I've really started to understand the level that he was at and that was always something that really kind of inspired me obviously I don't think there's a [ __ ] fighter on the planet that can't say Connor didn't inspire them because he opened the doors for this country to be you fighting and getting sponsorships like you can change your whole life and your family's life and the future of your family's life through this sport like and probably as well I'd say Dave Roach Dave had a huge impact on me from an early stage and it really kind of it directed me and he guided me to get to where I am now you know what I mean even just from a coaching aspect of being like understanding I never have to be out of the gym you know what I mean if I get injured if I'm sick whatever it is I'm still on the mat I'm still seeing still learning and like even patting people like I always say like it trains your eyes you still like I might not spar for two months and I'm still patting people so you're still managing distance you know what I mean? What a off topic but how how is he as a coach because like I see him working with people and he's just he looks so very invested in what he's doing at that time which obviously you want but just like he it it seemed like he I'm trying to say um I guess for me as more of a layman like I feel like if he was coaching me on anything I would just feel so intimidated so like for you like do you still do you feel that or is it No like he breaks me up sometimes during techniques but like I think he picks me for that you know what I mean but it's I don't know what it is it's like we have like a mutual understanding with everything you know what I mean I've always felt from like probably my first day meeting Dave that I was like this bloke can take me wherever he want. Right on. How has excuse me how has your kind of your self image changed since you started training and fighting? It's ridiculous man like I I honestly believe that one I don't think fights would happen as much in like schools and primary schools bullying everything if martial arts was implemented from day one of school but the the way I like the way I can carry myself now how I walk around like whatever you'd call it like the presence you bring to a room everything like that completely changes just from the basic idea of knowing I can defend myself against majority of people you know what I mean? It's funny that you say like you can defend yourself it's not I can [ __ ] you up you know and like I think that's a big distinction between um someone who's trained and untrained. Exactly yeah. Don't get me wrong I'm sure you probably think that sometimes Yeah yeah depending on the person like but like certain probably you know maybe after you're approached or something like that but you know I say it's like a key difference you know if you're trained you have the bit more of that kind of wherewithal of what's you know implication of what can happen and you know consequences and you know that that type of thing. this thing as well with like what would you call it like because I've known from a very early stage that I wanted to do this as a career I knew how negative a fight outside could be for me and my coach Dara McFall from day one and he was like he wouldn't have been like in terms of like a martial artist like in like he only really focused on striking he wouldn't ever really got like the like you know the way they say jiu-jitsu is like the gentle art and like I found like jiu-jitsu definitely like calmed me down a lot but I never really got that whole thing of like always wanting to diffuse situations until he said to me he was like you're not allowed back in the gym if we hear about you fighting outside he was like you have too much potential That's good. And that stayed with me from the age of like 15 and it's always been a thing we we can proudly say that was since I started training we haven't been in one fight outside That's good. You know what I mean and there was there was one time when I got into a fight in school and that was after I had originally started training but I had only trained for like a month or two but ever since I fought in like a ring or a cage I haven't got into anything outside. Cuz I feel like you just I don't feel threatened enough like it's like you'd have to really hit me for me to do something, or at least like swing at me and uh Dave always gave me this thing it was like if someone approaches you, you take one step back. And then if they step forward, you just step one leg back into your stance. And now you're at kicking range. And it's that's happened once. It's never had to go any further. Well, like uh Jocko Willink, he always says, you know, like what what did He He's He says like you know, if he's ever in a situation, just run. And then he says that's what he's going to do. Mhm. You know, cuz like he knows what he's capable of doing. Um clearly if someone's coming at him, they have no idea who he is. Um you know, and so like if Jocko says he's going to run. Mhm. You know. Exactly. I like There is that thing like as like what we do like from a training perspective is like obviously like there's coaches and like in a fight there's a ref and all, but when that's not there like and that instinct takes over, you don't know what you'll do. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I don't know when I'll stop if there's no ref like Do you know what I mean? I always say that from like a fighting perspective, the ref's job is to stop me killing you or you killing me. Do you know what I mean? Because it's instinctual. Do you know what I mean? This person's in here trying to hurt you. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? There's no like I always say it people give out about like um even like the new rules and all getting changed where like you can say like knee knee knee an opponent when they have their hands on the ground in the head, or you can kick them in the head from that position. And I was like I think it should be as close to real fighting as possible. I'd be happy with pride rules, bro. Do you know what I mean? Like honestly like it's I'm I'm like that with like if you can do it in a street fight, But WWE rules with chairs and stuff. If you can do it in a street fight, I think like MMA can kind of it should be allowed. Do you know what I mean? Majority of things. Maybe bare head butts like Do you know what I mean? Possibly. But I'm open to everything like I always think though that like fighting now you're starting to see it kind of go back towards the direction of like pure fighting, but I think to get it through to get it onto mainstream, they had to kind of pull it back a little bit, you know what I mean? I think now you have like bare knuckles and all. You have Well, you have like bare knuckle boxing now. Yeah, bare knuckle boxing is hell. That used to just be a thing that was considered by travelers. Do you know what I mean? Nobody ever [ __ ] looked at bare knuckles and said that's going to be a sport, like I I remember I used to I used to be a proponent of um like MMA going gloveless, or smaller pads, because you'd be a bit more delicate with your your strikes and everything. Yeah. But after watching some bare knuckle like I don't know, man. Like Now to me like it's literally just the visual of bleeding everywhere. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That that is what it is. Um but oh my like wow, like you cannot put that on television. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. You know, and I'm I'm surprised that Yeah, I'm surprised that uh the there has there hasn't been a lot of controversy over there. Have you ever seen Lethwei? Who? Lethwei. Maybe. It's a Burmese toy boxing. So it's basically like uh it's they call it the art of nine limbs. So it's punches, kicks, knees, elbows, and head butts. Okay. And they fight in like you know the traditional toy wraps, but rope wraps. Wow. Yeah, so it's like twice Do they have hemp ropes? Yeah. Yeah. And it's like wrapped around uh the knuckles, so there's no gloves whatsoever. And then I got a I got a headache thinking about it. If you get knocked out, they have 2 minutes to wake you up, and you're allowed to go back in and fight. Oh my god. It's nuts it is, yeah. That's insane. Crazy, yeah. All right, on that note. Is there anything you've learned about like combat sports, or MMA, or boxing, anything in general that maybe you you didn't expect to learn? Um didn't expect to learn. I didn't expect martial arts to kind of like I went into fighting for the fighting aspect of it. I didn't really expect the like martial arts lifestyle Okay. to become part of my life like Do you know what I mean? Like the whole like same. Obviously the whole like of like coaching and even like say like yesterday like we me and Rob Carrey out in Bray um every Tuesday we're doing this like free women's self defense class. Oh, yeah? And yeah, so that's been going on like what like the last 3 weeks we're doing it in like 6 weeks 6 week blocks. Um and like things like that like even like helping helping fighters helping people. I never seen that side coming from the sport. Okay. And being able to like I look at that as giving back like Do you know what I mean? Even like we're doing the whole thing like we're doing it completely free. And I said it to them I was like I do this every week for 3 minutes. Like there's a level of rewarding or reward that you get from giving, especially when it's a skill that could literally save your life. Absolutely. And talk talk more about that cuz I'm I'm very interested in that. Like uh you know, like I said I work with Jackie that So there's another podcast I work on called a letter talk hosted by our friend Jackie Almeida. Um and it's specifically like empowering women. Yeah. Um which I'm a proponent of. I have two little girls and I want them to be, you know, badass like me. Yeah. But no, like I want them to, you know, to kind of have the confidence in the world to, you know, to you know, take on everyday challenges and whatever. So but please like tell tell me more Tell us more about what you do for that self defense. I'm very interested. So um basically what we're doing at the minute is it's 2-day once a week on a Thursday at 6:00 p.m. or on a Tuesday, sorry, at 6:00 p.m. It's myself and Rob Carrey coaching. And we done the first 2 weeks uh Muay Thai based. The second 2 weeks that we're in now will be boxing based. And then the last 2 weeks will be kind of MMA based. Okay. And Rob would have been one of the coaches that we would have originally worked with. He would have been alongside Darren McFall. And um it's it's amazing to you see like we got I think we've been hitting 18 to 20 consistently for the first 3 weeks. And now obviously when you do stuff for free, you always get people that book in. So that we had like I think 30 booked in and 34 on the wait list. And then we opened it up to them all. And there's still probably only about 20 showing up. It's whenever you do stuff for free, you'll always get about 50% don't show up. But I think You should do You should do like Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. I was saying you should do like a to try and mitigate that, just charge like a fiver. Either give it back to them when they show up, or have like like food or drinks or something like that. Yeah. Definitely. 100%. mitigate cuz you'll get people who want to go and they can't. Yeah. But just an idea. Yeah, that's brilliant, yeah. You can talk later. I'm happy to help out with that. I can I can help with that booking stuff and I can I'll do it for free. Oh, definitely. Thank you. Um just an idea, you know. Sorry sorry, please don't mean to did not mean to interrupt you. No, you're all good. Um yeah, so basically our whole idea of it is now you're not going to learn in 6 weeks how to defend yourself. Do you know what I mean? But you might pick up a few key details that in a in a self defense situation will be able to get you out of it. Do you know what I mean? Like and again I always say when you're talking about especially when you're talking about women's self defense, it's not fighting. There's no rules like Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like if you latch onto someone's face with your teeth and that's going to be a way to identify somebody. There's a hole in that bloke's cheek. Do you know what I mean? Or he has a bit of his ear missing. Do you know what I mean? Whatever it is, that's that I always say go for whatever you can. But if we can teach fundamental basics where you're you know how to block a shot if somebody just starts swinging at you, or whatever it is, if you get into a position, you know how to sweep somebody, you know how to defend a takedown if somebody body locks you. Cuz a lot of these things especially for women are you're de- you're not dealing with someone of possibly equal strength. Yeah. It'll be a big Yeah, it'll be a it'll be a huge discrepancy. It's a pound density difference and all like Do you know what I mean? So it is a thing of like it's a way for women as well to kind of come and try out a class where it's purely for them. Do you know what I mean? And then if this is something you're really interested in, brilliant. You should join the gym. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Or at least get you in the door and you might be able to talk to one of the girls there and you should join the gym together so you have a training partner. Do you know what I mean? Cuz a lot of like even still there's a big stigma in gyms like martial arts gyms that you go in and kill each other. And that's not at all what it is. I was going to say at at very least maybe it'll you know, it'll get maybe more women interested in you know, actually looking at their local gym. Yeah. Because they have that might have that stigma, or uh uh you know, they might view it as this big scary place, which to be fair, that's that's how I felt or that's how I viewed it before I started. Um you know, so I can only imagine it's got to be significantly worse for some women. Exactly. Exactly. But no, I I think I think it's awesome you do that. And I I definitely want to try and help you promote that as much as I can because uh Yeah, I think it's awesome. Um All right. So we just covered one of the things. But how else do you spend your time away from the gym? I try like I'm very lucky in a way like my friends outside of this, most of them don't do anything to do with fighting. Really? Yeah, like none of like just like would work like normal jobs, or like even some of them would have like obviously like be involved in like businesses and doing their own things, completely detached from fighting. So, like I'd be around I'd go out to like a few of the lads and I'd be able to like not even have anyone ask about a fight. Do you know what I mean? That'd be nice sometimes. Yeah, definitely. It's completely disconnect. It's nice. Now, obviously, I feel like then there's the other side of it when I probably have a fight coming up. I completely like isolate myself. I find like that's very important. But, outside of like fight camps, I'll be very like I I make sure that I get away from the gym a bit because I've I've had to be told a good few times, but I did eventually learn it that burnout is real. Oh, yeah. And mental burnout can be worse than physical burnout. When especially for someone like me where like I'd be in the gym for like multiple hours at a time like even if I'm not training. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. You can burn out very easily that way. All right. Um You give me one non-MMA-related goal you have for yourself. Um non-MMA I guess it's technically non-MMA Well, I want by by probably the time I'm 30 to have something completely like a full system built to be helping people from like school ideally from primary school and up like I was talking about earlier where kids are training. People are learning this early on. Oh, it's not like personal like as in like fighting. Go up, still probably related to MMA, but it's the whole idea that to completely mainstream the sport. Okay. And not make it this thing that is like just about fighters. Like even you saying John Kavanagh talking about it with the elder program. He was like, "I don't want to just have it as you have to fight at the end of it. This is to get you in the gym. This is to get you training, learn martial arts." And I kind of look at it as doing that with the younger generation. Okay. And being able to impact that and make sure that there's nobody like I'd love for people to join a gym and not have to go through what I had to go through to join the gym. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Cuz when you're forced to know you can't defend yourself. Maybe now not everybody would be as lucky as me and not everybody would have had like my mate stay at the time he dragged me to a [ __ ] Muay Thai class the first time and I fell in love with her. Mhm. But, if he hadn't have been there to drag me, I probably just have went enjoyed myself and been like, "Ah, I'll have to [ __ ] figure this out myself." And Do you know what I mean? And you never really you never really get anywhere that way. So, I think getting it instilled in school some way at an early age will completely change the future. Do you know what I mean? For kids, for Right on. the whole thing the whole experience in school because they'll learn about being able to carry themselves correctly of fighting or that sort of martial arts and being able to be really really confident in yourself just comes as a byproduct of learning self-defense. Yeah, you know that's good and then I always think it's good for be I'm going to just say like maybe kids who maybe they don't have the most positive role models at home. Exactly. You know, that they can come to sounds weird a a class on fighting, you know, and you know they can have a positive role model teach them, you know, right from wrong kind of a thing and uh I I'm a big proponent for things for women And kids. Exactly. Underprivileged kids and stuff like that. Mhm. Um So, I think it's awesome. I I really hope you you get to start something like that. And if I can ever be of any help, please let me know. Of course. And thank you. Um What's one thing someone would be surprised to learn about you? Oh. Um Actually, this is really interesting. Have you ever heard of Reiki? Yeah. Yeah, so I'm a practitioner in Reiki. Oh, no [ __ ] Yeah, yeah. So, I haven't done the masters yet, but I've done the um Reiki 1 and Reiki 2. Okay. And that was something that I got into during Was it it was probably about maybe like six or six or nine months before the lockdown. Okay. And I continued I'd done it every week with a girl She actually operates two or three days a week out of SBG Tallaght upstairs. Carol Absolute Healing. And she's amazing. And it would just it helped me mind to a lot of stuff that I didn't really I didn't know existed. Do you know what I mean? I think it's stuff we didn't believe in at the time. Yeah, yeah. And it really kind of changed my perspective on a lot of things in life. That's cool. That was something that every time I I mention it to people they're kind of like mind-blown. Even me dad, he always talks about it. He's like it's literally like yin and yang. Like it's like complete opposites. There's like this side of it that is like realistically as an MMA fighter as much as I could talk about self-defense and all, but as an MMA fighter your job is to hurt people. Do you know what I mean? And then practicing Reiki, it's all about healing people. It's literally the two power of opposites like Do you know what I mean? So, I find that really really like [ __ ] interesting as well. Be a bit of a good balance, I guess. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Um Can you speak on how combat sports has contributed to your mental health? Oh, oh my god, man. Like even if you go back to the mindset you're in as a 13-year-old who just got battered by some 19-year-old in an alley, you feel completely powerless like. And then being able to walk down the road or walk I even remember cuz when I got jumped, I was walking through an alley on the way to my cousin's house. His dad coached my football team. And it was probably only about a year or two years ago. I was walking down that alley again. And I was like "I'd love to see that blow." Do you know what I mean? But, it was I was I was like Do you ever run into that guy again? No, no. Uh the contrast in how I was before martial arts and how I am after, it's even through obviously we all go through [ __ ] in life. Like it's not like the [ __ ] the last 12 years ever since I got jumped have been perfect in life. Like there's been a load of [ __ ] that's happened to me life and I've been able to stay calm and collected and I've had an outlet when I'm angry. I've had people to go to from the gym that have experienced way beyond my years. People like Dave that I can go and talk to about absolutely anything. The amount of people that I've I've met through the gym that have just like you get a different like a different connection with a lot of people in there. And now especially that mental health has become a real big thing that people are talking about now and people are a lot more open to talk about it. It's like you you've surrounded yourself with a load of people who they already know everybody gets humbled every day in the gym. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like the best fighter in the world can come in and have a bad day and get mauled by somebody who they should not lose a sequence to. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And that alone will kind of get you through bad days. You understand that it comes in waves like Do you know what I mean? The same way I can walk into the gym and think I'm going to piece up everybody and just get mauled. The same way I can go into a normal day in life and have a terrible day, but you just have to go with it. Do you know what I mean? You learn that kind of go with the flow mentality like. Yeah, And I think that's very important. It's definitely helped me a lot. Do you have any kind of like mental exercises that you go through? I meditate a lot and I found the Reiki was an absolute game-changer. Okay. That was something that if anybody doesn't know what it is, don't even look it up. Just find someone who does it near you and book into it because if you look it up, you'll talk yourself out of it cuz you'll say it's not real. Do you know what I mean? That's that's what it's done for me. kind of practicing or Yeah, I still practice and then Can people book book yourself? Uh I don't I don't do it like um if anybody got onto me, I don't charge for it at the minute cuz I haven't done the masters on it yet. So, I I don't like a bit with me dad. He really enjoyed it. Um I've done like a few day a few nights in a row and and it's it's kind of hard to explain, but it just kind of gives you that like clear-headedness. I always say to people like I found it like completely takes away anxiety. Okay. And that's what I think a lot of people are probably like I'm probably going to get in a bit of trouble for saying this, but like misdiagnosed with that it's like anxiety is just a byproduct of having knowledge like. Okay. You like if I'm if I know that like say anxiety before a fight cuz I know the potential of something bad happening is huge. Do you know what I mean? And I know that this person is training to hurt me as much as I'm trying to hurt him. Yeah, anxiety kind of gets a bit of a bad rap because like it is it is healthy to have anxiety. Yeah, like if you didn't have to think before you said and Sorry for going across you. But, if you didn't have to think and like think about potential consequences before you done something or said something, you'd be chaotic as [ __ ] Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like nobody would have any filter. Nobody Nobody would Everyone would be canceled. Do you know what I mean? Like there's so many things that go wrong from not having that. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And then when I think you focus on it too much and you then live inside your head. And especially like after the lockdowns, a lot of people especially depending on what your environment at home is like, a lot of people didn't have the ability to be able to go out and still socialize and get stuff off their chest. If you don't have a if you're not growing up in a home where it's okay to talk, then the lockdowns probably made people very very like stuck in their own head. Oh, yeah, for sure. Or if you didn't really have a a wide social circle or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Long-term goals with MMA? Long-term goals with MMA. So, you're going pro debut? Pro debut. 8th of December. 8th of December. We don't really like the fight. Maybe January, February again. Then I think I think two fights and I'll be looking at PFL or Bellator. I really run through PFL. 100 grand tournament first of all, then you go into the million dollar tournament, then probably like Bellator. I think my whole goal has always been I want to cement that I'm the best on the planet at what I do. Okay. And I don't think I don't think going about it as like the normal trajectory of like going like straight to the UFC or like the whole like what is it? Most people go like five, six and out so you go into the Contender Series or go like maybe like the Cage Warriors rule or any of them. Obviously, it's all still well and good, but I think trying to nearly nearly obtain a world title on all the major organizations in MMA. Do you know what I mean? That would be Do you see yourself in the UFC? Yeah, eventually. Eventually, yeah. I just think doing it right the whole [ __ ] money side of the UFC is a little bit weird like. So, I think you can make really good money outside of it and then if you progress to there brilliant and then you can go and kind of cement your legacy there and say I've I've done the UFC now. I've won the world title. I've done all of that. But I I definitely think a lot of people going to get a little bit sidetracked by just chasing that goal of getting to the UFC and then they end up in their 30s and [ __ ] sitting there being like, man, we need a gaff. Do you know what I mean? And that's the last thing we want. We we're going to focus more on the whole thing of like you need to build a brand. Do you know what I mean? And that's like if you look at like what Conor done. Everything Conor touches turns to gold because of the brand he built. Now, obviously, the UFC were alongside him for that and a big part of it, but the UFC wasn't a billion dollar company before he came along. That's true. know what I mean? So, it's a it's a thing of you have to just focus on branding. Branding is everything like. Okay. And I think that allows you to then kind of not do as you please, but it opens a lot more doors for you. Okay. Do you know what I mean? So, I want to I want to do that and make sure that I I lay a path down for the future. For fighters. That it's there's these routes you can go. Do you know what I mean? Like you see like even John John Kavanagh's obviously doing it as well with like PEC. How like often PFL and Bellator shows are over here. We haven't had the UFC over here in [ __ ] years. Do you know what I mean? So, to have shows that are local that are big that people are getting paid on. Do you know what I mean? That athletes can actually look at and be like All right, like you can get here like I know I might be able to get here if I get say we go out and finish me first two fights with all the real knockouts. It's brilliant. Yeah. Then we're probably signing straight away and then we're going and we'll make probably better money than [ __ ] someone in the top 10 of the UFC. Do you think there's more money in it now these days than say you know five, 10 years ago? Yeah, yeah. There's probably more money getting put in it every day like. It's it's still it's probably I think bare knuckle is obviously growing huge, but MMA is still the fastest growing sport on the planet. Yeah, absolutely. Do you know what I mean? But I think it in especially in this country as well. Yeah, yeah. And plus it's it's one of them things that there's you're seeing like the Saudis are like buying into things now and like all of that. So, like all the major places that have money are pumping money into MMA now, which is brilliant cuz then there's money coming from all angles. Yeah, yeah. I mean even seeing Makhachev getting paid like [ __ ] really good money in Brave like. Brave is never known for amazing money like. No. Do you know what I mean? So, it's good. There's loads of opportunity now. All right, man. All right. Run up to the end here. So, I just got a few kind of quick fire questions for you. Just give me the first thing off top of your head there. All right. Uh coffee or tea? Coffee. Coffee? What is the worst advice you've ever received? At least that you can remember. Um I won't say who said it to me, but I'll bleep it out. I was talking I was talking about um I was talking about either I think it was like fighters maybe wrestlers. It was years ago. It was when I was a kid, but somebody said to me the 1% make it. Say it again. The 1% make it. Only the 1% make it. Go to school and get a job. That was the worst bit of advice I've ever got in me life. Because it's it's immediately telling you to just not chase your Not Do you know what I mean? And that's Yeah, yeah. All right, then. Uh dinner with anyone dead or alive? Silva? Ooh, Silva. Yeah, yeah. We'll go with that, yeah. Uh all right. Last one here. Uh who's the last person you called to talk to? Ooh. The last person I called me mate on the golf course that has two kids, Adam McFall. Yeah. Yeah, he's the last person I would have called to talk to. talk to Martin? Yeah, all the time, bro. All right, then. All right, Wickman. Um I appreciate your time. Thank you, man. Thank you very much. Had a wonderful conversation with you. Hope to have you back sometime and uh look forward to your pro debut. I said I should be up there.