Road to recovery, Episode 2, Derek Kearney

สรุป

Okay, so I'm here with Eric Harney. We've spoke before obviously, so we're going to delve into his story of addiction and then his his recovery that he's in now and then all the bits in between. So, thank you very much for joining me and taking the time and talking about a…

ถอดเสียง (youtube_captions)

Okay, so I'm here with Eric Harney. We've spoke before obviously, so we're going to delve into his story of addiction and then his his recovery that he's in now and then all the bits in between. So, thank you very much for joining me and taking the time and talking about a subject like this cuz not many people would. So, how are you today? How are you feeling? I'm good. I'm pretty good. A little bit nervous actually, oddly enough. I think this is the first podcast record chat type thing I've had where we're probably going to delve quite far into it. So, I'm excited and nervous, but feeling good overall. And thank you for having me. No problem. It's just cuz it's obviously back on kind of the last conversation we had like a obviously everyone would know that I do MMA and I wasn't expecting these kind of stories, but with the other stories which you were true, I found it was such a range of stories and your one like really stood out to me because I think the reason a massive problem a epidemic of addiction and addiction that people don't talk about and people that don't even know about especially with the likes of cocaine as well because a lot of people go home do it by themselves and people don't realize that there is problem. So, thank you like I said, thank you for being so open about and like that if like I said, if there's any questions you don't want to answer, we can skip or we can go ahead, but I've I'll be quite soft with the questions as well anyways. But, um when was your first kind of interaction with any sort of uh substance? So, So, um I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to answer the question, but I'm going to revert back a little I'm going to revert back revert revert back a little bit further. Um I think that I've always had issues with addiction even before alcohol or drug use ever came into it. Um when I was younger, I always had a craving or a need to fill a void. Um and that would be stuff like foods or you know, like um gaming or like you know, stuff like that, but it was mostly food actually, I think. Um and I remember a lot of people like no one ever like no one ever thought there was anything wrong because I was such a a skinny child. So, I would eat and eat and eat and eat and eat, but like no one would ever know any of the difference, right? Um and I think that says a lot for like, you know, addiction in a lot of people where they can drink and drink and drink, but people don't know any different cuz they're so good at hiding it. Um but to answer your question about uh when I first came into contact with substances, I think maybe I was about I was about 13, 14. Like I grew up in Tallaght. So, you know, most kids when they hit that age are kind of going around fields drinking. You know what I mean? Like it was kind of a part of the a part of the environment. Um but I also grew I grew up in a lot like I grew up in pubs, basically. Um I spent a lot of time in the '90s, which I think was kind of normal back then, but maybe not so much now. It's like bring your child to a to a pub and just leave them there all day. Um That that glass bottle of Coke and the potato potato bag is the sign of neglect for I think us. Exactly. Or bacon fries. Bacon fries were the big thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um I alcohol was kind of normalized to me from a very young age. You know what I mean? Like I saw my parents do it. I saw my family do it. I saw a lot of other people do it. So, growing up around that environment, when I went to go do it, it didn't seem so strange. You know what I mean? Yeah, no. It it it I think a lot of people, especially I would have grew up in the '80s, '90s. So, that would have been the same for like me, my cousins, stuff like that as well. It's It's mad how you see it's changed so much. That there's a lot more things to do other than the pub. Whereas the pub used to be just kind of the only really thing to do. They didn't have the activities that they had or maybe they did. They just didn't go out to them. But when what like what was the first thing you tried? Was it weed? Was it alcohol? First thing I definitely tried was alcohol. I think it might have been a blue wicked. Like I think it might have been a blue wicked or I think it may have been it maybe been a cider or maybe a vodka. Something along those lines. Um I can't really remember exactly when. In terms of drugs, I I think the first thing I actually possibly tried was an ecstasy pill. I think that was the first thing I ever tried. And I remember that I remember that day. I remember that day and night so clearly. Like we were going to um going to a rave by this French band called Justice. And I think I was 16 and like someone told me they like my friends were like, "Oh, we have pills." And I was like, "Oh, I don't know what that is." And then they were like, "Just try it." And I was like, "Cool." Um and then it kind of like all all kicked off, you know? But I think that was the first thing I tried. That's a bit intense for the first thing to to kind of try. It it it is but but like that that's but you were in that age group where there was a lot of people who would have tried it at that age group as well. And like that you're listening to dance music, you're going to raves. Um yeah, the feeling obviously probably at the time would have been very euphoric, especially with the music, stuff like that. It is a love kind of drug as well. So I would love you. I love you. Um but obviously that's not something you got into cuz so like as you as you went through like cuz it always kind of starts somewhere and then it goes through because at at that time pills would have been kind of the thing that everyone was doing. Like when did cocaine start coming into your life? Um so I think cocaine started coming into my life when I was about How old am I now? I'm 32 now. So possibly when I was about 22, 23. Like it actually like it wasn't my drug of choice at all. When I first got into drugs, like most of my drug of choice was was pills or MDMA because I would always take them with a with with a purpose, you know, like I was going to I say that now, but I was going to a rave or you know, like I was on a night out or was going dancing or like something like there was always kind of like Sounds weird saying it now, but there was almost like an end to the means, you know, like I was taking drugs because I was going to this place where like it would be acceptable to be on drugs. Um but when I got into my early twenties uh I I became a DJ and me and my friend started club nights and I started getting more and more gigs and it I started basically taking cocaine because it was offered to me. I liked it and also it allowed me to stay up for longer periods of time and it allowed me to drink more. So but like I think the the the drink definitely came before the drug. Like I wouldn't take coke if I was sober. Like I've never like I've never taken it sober like ever in my whole entire life. But um it allowed me to just kind of you know, stay up and and had a had a function and a purpose at that time. But then it just delved into something a lot more dark and it just became and became a really really big problem. Really big problem. Yeah, and especially with the the likes of like you said alcohol like it kind of balances doesn't it that you can drink more more more and then you can keep doing that and then you don't get overly messy. You don't feel overly messy, but like the havoc that's probably wreaking on your body. What would have been your drink of choice cuz mine was vodka and Red Bull and then when you mix that your heart rate is through the roof. Um mine was mine was always beer or wine. So generally generally it was beer when I was out and wine when I was at home. Like I wouldn't really drink wine at a party. Like I would be like, "Oh, if I was at dinner, I'd have a glass of wine or several glasses of wine or 20 glasses of wine." But but uh when I was out like, you know, in a club or pub or whatever generally it was always beer. And when when along like obviously you you don't pills MDMA and then obviously the coke with the the gigs and then the drink. When when did you realize it was starting to be a problem? Because for a while did you assume this was just normal everyone did it because in the places you were that's what would have been going on. I think when it became I think it started becoming a problem when when Okay, first of all, I think just to put this into context, I think my drinking was a massive problem way before way before cocaine ever came into the the the fold. Um I had really bad issues with control. Um I had really bad issues with not knowing when to stop. And I think that when you're 18, 19, 20, possibly 21, you have less responsibilities by default. So therefore it's easier to justify to yourself that you're just doing this thing. Like I I thought I was just doing this thing that all 18, 19, 20-year-olds do, right? We go out, we get drunk, we get messy, you know, we call it a night and then we do it all over again. But it was only when I began to get older and when I started having more responsibilities that it became a problem. So it became a problem when a lot of people like first of all like people were were coming to me and it was never about the me actually using drugs. It was always about what I did on them. Or what I said on them. Or what my actions were. Or I was just I was being an [ __ ] and I wasn't being a nice person. But some nights were great. I'm not going to lie. I had a lot of fun on a lot of nights. But it came to a point where the bad was outweighing the good. And keep in mind that like I was a DJ. I had responsibility, you know, and I wasn't fulfilling my obligations as well as I should have. Um and this was putting a strain on businesses. My actions were putting a strain on businesses. Putting a strain on the reputation of places that I was before. And putting a lot of hassle on promoters because people wouldn't generally come to me at all. Sometimes they go to another person and go, "Hey, by the way, Derek's really [ __ ] up and can't do this job." Um so that's where it started really becoming a problem. And the worst part about it is that like even though I knew it was becoming a problem, it never stopped me. It never stopped me at all. I would just keep going and going and going and going. And then it came to a point where I got fired from gigs because I couldn't fulfill what they were asking me to do. And um I made my own bed with that one. I'll always hold my hands up for that. Um and then it kind of regressed to not regress, sorry, it progressed to just me sliding further down and just instead of doing it at the club, I was doing it at home. And you know, I had been fired from these gigs, so I had nowhere to go, nowhere to be, nothing to do. Um and I had all this extra free time on my hands. So I just decided to just sit at home and drink and snort coke. And with the level of accessibility that it's at in this city, which is insane. Like I could get that delivered to my house in 10 minutes. You know what I mean? It would take me longer to get a pizza ordered than it would to get that delivered to my house. Um it just became more and more accessible and it became easier and then I knew when to answer to in my eyes, so it just became worse. And you think that you think you would learn your lesson. You think I would have learned my lesson after those instances, but addiction doesn't work that way. And if you are not if you're not ready to stop, then it's going to keep going. And I wasn't ready to stop, so I just kept going. Yeah, I think they say some people need to like hit a rock bottom sort of a stage before they actually realize [ __ ] here it is. But the fact that because like I've been around stuff like that and I've been around people like that as well, they only care about the drinking and they only care about the bag and they don't and nothing else comes before that. They could have a wife, they could have a kids, they had could have everything, but nothing seems to come before that. And once you take the first one, that's the only one you really have control of as well. Yeah, so that's a very good point. Um a lot of people used to say to me that I would get to about three drinks. And with like those first three drinks I'd be like, you know, fun, happy, like having a great time. And then you just see the switch turn in my brain. And it's like my like my eyes would my eyes would change. And you see me on the phone, you know exactly what I was up to, what I was getting, and then it would just go, you know, we go go we go all peat tongue. Like we would I'd be out for the night. And it didn't matter what night it was. Like it didn't like it generally it was like any day that ended in Y. Like it could be like a [ __ ] one day it could be Tuesday, you know. Um so I always knew that and like but once it got to that point like I just like I just couldn't stop. Like I just couldn't stop. And then that would be it. It's yeah it's hard as well and there was something you mentioned earlier actually and you said it wasn't about like the amount you drank or the consistency. It was about your your change in behavior and someone said that to me a couple of years ago that they don't an alcoholic is more considered by their personality change uh when they're on alcohol or on a substance as opposed to consistently drinking every day. That's not to say someone who doesn't drink every day isn't an alcoholic, but someone who might only drink on the weekend, but they're a different person when they drink. That also can be considered an alcoholic as well. Um When you start noticing like when you're drinking what like you said, you got to three or four drinks and then it was just it was switch and then you weren't fun anymore, but you continued to keep drinking. And like when you started realizing that it was becoming a problem or this it's it still didn't kind of matter to you cuz you just wanted just to keep drinking and have fun, was it? Like is what's going on in your mind when that's happening or can you even recall back to then? So, it would kind of it would kind of be this this this this pattern. So, I would be engaging in behaviors that are not like in line with my character, that are not in line with who I am, certainly not in line with how I carry myself now. But there was always a cycle of I do or say something shitty. I feel like I gen- I would genuinely feel terrible about it. And then I would apologize profusely. The person would have enough grace to forgive me. And then I would consider the matter closed. And then we would just go all over again. Like it would just the the cycle would start again and it would repeat and repeat and repeat. So, that's like you know, like it's it's not like I could just stop because that's not how it works. And the cycle kept going and going and going until you know, I I didn't have anything left. And I didn't have any friends. I didn't have I didn't really have any. Like I didn't have anyone. And you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't say that that that's not like sympathy on me, you know? Like people create boundaries and set boundaries where they feel appropriate. And if that means saving themselves, you know, in order to live their life, then that's totally fine. And I don't hold like animosity against any of those people because they done what they needed to do in the moment. Um but it just it stripped everything. Like and I just didn't stop until I I felt like I was ready. Or I felt like my my my my body like my mind physically couldn't take anymore. So. And at the time when this was happening, obviously you were saying you ended up with no friends. That was my next question was going to be what kind of strain did that put on friendships? But did you notice these people going one by one slowly? Or were you just still in the stage of partying and drinking and and doing whatever that you didn't really notice it until later on kind of gone? Or did you kind of did you care that they'd gone at the stage at that stage? Um So I think it's kind of a it's kind of a tough question to answer, I think. I I I I lost best friends who I was friends with for 10 plus years. Um The the they were the result of arguments over kind of what I was doing. And I said I didn't feel supported. And then they were like, "Oh, well, that's the biggest slap in the face you've ever given us. [ __ ] you." Pretty much. Um and then I just kind of then there was a lot of like there was a lot of kind of different um how do I say it? Like different support structures that were pulled away. So like, you know, a lot of my a lot of my friendships and a lot of the people that I hung around with were like tied into the nightlife scene. Uh and the music scene. You know what I mean? And if I wasn't going to those places or I wasn't welcome in those places, then I basically didn't have any friends. So, like when I got, you know, pulled from gigs, you know, people didn't really tend to reach out or whatever, say what's going on. So, there was a lot of things that were pulled away based on the scene that I was um with at the time. So, it kind of all went at once, if I'm being honest. It was all a very fast fast process. Like, I think one thing one thing kind of happened after the other. Um so, yeah. And it just basically rapid succession and then it was just like poof. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a very It was a very rapid succession. Uh I kind of went like from having like, you know, loads of friends and loads of gigs and places to be to like absolutely having nothing at all. Um so. And when you said, obviously you don't have to answer this, when you said you you when you were going home cuz you weren't going to the clubs and stuff like that and you were drinking and maybe taking cocaine at home, were you doing that alone or were you doing that with people as well? Cuz I I've talked to a couple of people it's it's it's more so with cocaine that um they found it a very social drug until they didn't and then they found themselves by themselves. Was was that the case with you or were you drinking at home or you always made sure you had people around? Uh it was a mix. It was a mix. Like, there was still some people that I could call if I wanted to go out and, you know, party all night or if I wanted. There's people that I could call to come over and and hang out if they wanted to do that. I think it was mostly on my own towards the end, I would say. Probably like the last like 40% of it was definitely on my own. But, then like, you know, in remember that like, you know, in the gay community as well, like we have Grindr. So, like if you want to go on Grindr, like you can find someone to party with in 2.5 seconds on a some Friday or Saturday night because that's what a lot of people do in the gay scene. So, like there was always resources that I could go to if I if I did want someone to go hang out with. And sometimes I wouldn't even know these people. Like sometimes they'd be complete strangers. And then I'd just mess. Like that's kind of the level of dark that it got to. You know what I mean? Like you're inviting people over that you just met just for the sake of taking drugs. You know? Yeah. So, it was really dark. It could be potentially quite dangerous as well cuz you don't know what some people's intentions are coming over then as well. Obviously, people say they want to come party, but like you never know. They could be psychotic. They could be violent. They could be aggressive. Um it could be any of those things as well. Um when you were doing that alone and like that if you couldn't get anyone around, what was the feeling like? Was there a feeling of loneliness or was there any sort of that like when you're sitting there having a couple of drinks, having a couple of sorts, and you're maybe watching the TV? Cuz if you were to be doing that, I know myself, you're going to be fidgety. You're not going to be able to concentrate. Was there any feeling of loneliness at any stage? Um I would like I wouldn't say loneliness, but I would say emptiness. Like emptiness. It's it's always really it's always really ironic that like people are like that I was I'm not going to say people. I'm going to say me cuz my therapist I have a tendency to say people, but my therapist always tells me I have to say I. Um so, I think for me there was an ironic I there was an irony in the fact that I was trying to fill a void and it was just making the void bigger and bigger and bigger. Like I was taking these drugs to fill a void and the void it was just making the void even bigger. Like my world is very small. And there was definitely a big feeling of emptiness um and solousness behind it all because you're kind of sitting there I'm sitting there snorting lines, not really doing anything else, you know? And I felt like I didn't really have anyone that I could call, anyone I could talk to. Like sometimes I felt like I didn't even have like anyone that I could reach out to talk to. Even though I know that's not the case, you know what I mean? Like of course there's people there. Of course there's people there that I could talk to in any given moment. But that's not the way my brain was thinking when it was on drugs. So Yeah, so when you kind of I like you say when you're doing laundry, the acceptance of kind of doing it alone. And do you think it was because of like that you're on it, there's obviously paranoia factors and all that sort of stuff. Do you think then it was in your own head you were thinking I can't call this person that you think because of the drinking drugs was is was it just kind of like the mental kind of side of it? Like so obviously cocaine would make you paranoid. That you think you can't reach out to these people that are around. You know what? Like I I think it would I think it was mostly a thing where I felt like it was possibly in a inappropriate to do, you know? Like it was possibly Yeah, exactly. Not so much maybe that I was like bothering them, but the fact that like Derek's calling me while he's off his bean on coke, you know what I mean? Like what's what's that about? You know what I mean? Like and then remember that the the soul-crushing weight of that. Like it's like you like you like drunk texting your ex or like calling your ex when you're out of it, you know what I mean? You'd feel horrible the next day. You'd go, "Oh jeez, crap. Why did I do that? I'm such a [ __ ] idiot." Blah blah blah. Even though I knew that those people of course they would talk to me. Of course they would listen to me rant for [ __ ] two hours while I'm off my bean on coke, you know what I mean? But that's I I would always be afraid of how I would feel the next day. And if I went and done something like that. But the funny thing about it is that even if I didn't do it, I would still feel like that anyway because that's what the come down would be. You know what I mean? And that's so crushing. That's so crushing feeling. Like even thinking about it now, like I just have this like thing on my chest because I remember how it feels. Um of the regret the next day and you know, the shame and the guilt and wondering cuz I had a real bad tendency to black out when I was on coke cuz I was drinking on top of that. So, I would never I barely remember anything. And sometimes I would come across messages that I sent or people or like I would see like a phone log being like, "Who the [ __ ] was I on the phone to?" And then I see or I see like who who I was on the phone to and I'd be like, "Fuck, what did they talk about when I was on the phone? This call was a 9-minute long. What the [ __ ] did I talk about?" You know? It was always like the what if. How did that happen? Why did it happen? What did it happen? And then I didn't want to address the situation because I felt like it would bring me further shame. So, I would just ignore it. Cuz I would wrap this protective mechanism around me and go, "No, I don't want to deal with that because I'm afraid it's going to bring me further hurt." Even if I pissed so even if I knew damn well that I pissed off the person on the other end of the phone or I upset them or I hurt them in any way, I didn't want to deal with it because I was protect trying to protect my own ego. You know? And keep justifying that there was nothing wrong and everything's fine and I have it under control. You know? That's how it works. For me, anyway. Um it's a sort of obviously when you were saying you were seeing these calls and then you wanted to wrap yourself up, you didn't really want to uh go into it more or try and find out or address the situation. Would Would that not ramp up your anxiety levels? Was your anxiety Did you find your anxiety was getting higher and with those stages when you're blacking out, waking up, and seeing all this stuff? Oh god, it was crippling. Like cripplingly bad. Um to the point where I would lock myself in my room for 2 days. Because I just didn't want to see people. I didn't want to interact with people. I didn't want to deal with anything. Like my phone would be off. You know, it was it was really bad. Like really really bad. And like I have like I have anxiety anyway. Like even when I'm not even when I'm not on drugs, I have I have I have pretty bad anxiety at the best of times. And I have a lot of tools now that I use to um manage it in an effective way. But doing [ __ ] like that is like putting like gasoline over fire. It just it it makes it explode. And in order to handle that, I would just try and ignore it. You know what I mean? Like and the best way to ignore it is like lock yourself in a room for 2 days. You know what I mean? Like it's not dealing with it, it's ignoring it. And ignoring it is just kicking it further down the road until you eventually have to face it at some point. Yeah, cuz it does have to be faced eventually. So you're just kind of just moving it along until you actually have to have that difficult conversation or you have to have that difficult interaction with someone that you may have contacted while you're on the substance or on on alcohol. Yeah. So we've gone through kind of like you're you're going through it the different levels of it like to where you were different person to uh the issues you were having with your job and your responsibilities and stuff like that. And then eventually leading into you were drinking doing it a lot at home. Uh talk like just just partying with anyone who wanted to party in that sort of way. So like what was your kind of moment where you went like this is like this is a real problem? So when I thought it was a real problem. So I thought So I I I had many moments where I I felt like I hit rock bottom. And how I always always thought of Like I was always aware that it was a problem. Like deep down I was I was aware that this is something that I have to stop or at least look at. But um unfortunately my addiction didn't work that way. So um there was a There was one incident in particular. Actually so I'm going to rewind back a little bit actually, right? So like you know, we we spoke about my involvement in mixed martial arts before and I went into Room to Warrior to try and you know, get over my addiction or at least get a handle on it. And I done that first season. And then I think I was off drink and drugs for like I think maybe about 9 months. And um after that I thought I was cured. And I was like, "I'm fine. Like I can definitely have a handle on this." So I went back to drinking again. And then actually and I This is in early 2020. And it actually like it started off like okay and then it just like began to go exactly where it was beforehand. Um and me and my brother went to London to go see UFC. And um we were in London and we went to the O2 where the fights were. And the package that I got us was um this um like a VIP kind of thing. Um but it was a it was a it was an open bar. Like it was a free bar. So I got like wasted. Like don't ask me who won any of those fights because I cannot remember. And then the next day we woke up hungover. We decided to go out drinking again. We went to like a bar in London somewhere like on the outskirts of it. But long story short, I sent my brother across London home in a taxi so I could go out and party with people that I just met. And um I got home at I think it almost would have been 6:00 or 7:00 in the morning. And I had a flight to the airport at like 2:00 I think or something. So, I was running on no sleep. And I remember sitting in the airport like like on a crushing come down from coke and drugs or sorry, coke and drink. And just like feeling like my soul had like truly left my body. And out of all the nights that I've had like out of all the nights that I've had and I've done some pretty [ __ ] wild [ __ ] like, you know, been on binges for days like, you know, been out for 3 days at a time. There was something about that moment that just I was like, this has to change. Like this like this has to stop. And I think that maybe it was because one, I felt like I'd kind of like put my brother at risk, you know what I mean? Like it was family, you know what I mean? Like it felt like a little bit too close to home for my liking. Um and the fact that I was sitting in this airport and like I've been in the airports like hung over multiple times, right? Like just like so many times. But this one was just it was just the worst thing I'd ever experienced in my life. And I was like, this is where it needs to change. Like this is where you have to get better. So, that I came home on the Monday and then the very next day I put myself back into Al-Anon for the second season that I'd done. Um and just was like, try it again, see how it goes, and see if you can keep you know, keep going with it. I think there was a lot of lessons learned from the previous batch of you know, not drinking and being off coke where I was like, okay, maybe like, you know, you you can't go back and, you know, it doesn't just switch off, you know what I mean? Like, it's not like, oh, you'll be you'll be all cured and stuff like that. So, that was probably the point where I fully realized that something has to change. And like, the the best part about it is that and this might sound odd, but the best part about it is that it doesn't matter how many times it it it takes. You know, like, I think this was potentially my 12th time of trying to quit drink. And the first time I tried to quit drinking was years ago. Like, I've been through many stances of I need to stop or, you know, I need I need to figure out what's going on. So, um it would have been like my 12th try. I think it worked. Obviously, it did work to a certain extent, but I don't think it I don't don't think it mattered how many times it took as long as you get that one chance where it sticks, you know, or that one time where it sticks. Yeah, no, cuz I was talking to Shane and that's what he says. It's it's kind of like an ego thing as well. Kind of like what you said, I'm cured now. I'll be fine. I can have it. And and I think a lot of people go to that stage as well. And like you said, it's it's if you keep doing it and you just you just need that one time to stick because, like you said, that is the interaction in the airport where you realized that this has to change. Obviously, it was family and it was so close to close to home that you wanted to move on. But, if every time you quit, um like, did you learn something from every single time? Cuz I'm assuming like, the first time you try and quit, you're going to still be around the same circle of people. Like, they're like you were talking about people with their boundaries kind of shutting you out because of of the drinking and your behavior. Was that something you now had to start doing to other people? Um no, not really. Like, you know, just to with your point about like, you know, the the influences and like how many times and stuff like that. Like, you know, you can try and stop as much as you want as much as you want as much as you like. But in my experience, I didn't I was never stopping for myself. I was always stopping for someone else. So, I was stopping because I was affecting this person's, you know, my behavior was affecting this person or what I was saying was [ __ ] everything up and no one wants to be my friend, right? And for me, that was always the wrong reason to stop. Because if I was doing that, then I was always going to be beholden to other people and I was never doing it for myself. I was at the ransom of someone else, right? So, if I This this happened loads of times where I said I quit and then I [ __ ] up and then this person who I said I'd stop for came back to me and was like, "Oh, you said you were going to stop blah blah." And that just makes the problem so much [ __ ] worse because then you feel twice as bad that you can't stop. You know? Like, it's it hits it hits so much harder cuz you feel like a failure. And you feel like that you you haven't held up your end of the bargain, when in reality, the only bargain you should be holding up is with yourself. Not someone else. So, for me, until I wanted to stop for me, that's the only time it was going to work. And to your point about like influences and stuff like that, no, like a lot of people who I hang out with now are very moderate drinkers. Some of them And it's really funny like when you go into like a pub or a club or a bar party and you realize that the people even the people that I still like still know from years ago, you realize they don't drink half as much as you as you thought that they did. Like, but like I'd be on like my sixth pint and they'd be on like their second, you know? And you only realize that when you stop, which is quite interesting. So, um I didn't have to change my my friend circle an awful lot because one I had already I wasn't associating with a lot of the people who I was drinking heavily with anyway. Um and I I know remember when I stopped, I was pretty much involved with like, you know, MMA and stuff like that by the time I stopped. So, a lot of those people I I hang out with, you know, like in in the gym and we go out sometimes, but a lot of them don't drink that much. And then what my friend circle now, like it's quite small, but it's tight. Um and I find that being in my 30s, um a lot of people who are also in their 30s don't really go out to the club and get drunk an awful lot, you know? They they don't. They just kind of lay out of like a lot of my family, like even if um even a very good friend of mine, one of my best friends, like he has a a kid now and a wife now, and we used to party like, you know, non-stop all the time. And he's like, "No, I can't really do that anymore." And I'm like, "Well, guess what? Me neither." So, it all works out. Um so, things have things have stabilized as as as I've gotten older, for sure, including with my friends, too. So. Yeah, no, that's that's fantastic. And would now be the longest kind of stint you're off? I want to say, let's see, about 18 months, 20 months? Is it around that? Or am I just way off? No, you're near enough. I think it's I think it's 19 months. It'll be 2 years in March. Yes. So, that's what? 21 21 21 months? Near enough, yeah. So, 2 years in March. And what was the like, obviously you don't like I said, you don't just switch off. How hard is it for the initial first couple of weeks? Like were you constantly thinking, "Oh, I'd love a drink. I'd love a drink." Or or did the MMA like replace that addiction? So, the MMA definitely replaced the addiction for for period of time because it was something to focus on. But I find I found that when it came to the weekends that's when the little devil would start popping up. Because the devil would go to me, "Oh, but you've worked so hard all week and you know, you've been in training all week and you showed up every day and you know, wouldn't it just be so good if you could just like, you know, have a couple of drinks or whatever." So, my Friday nights had to turn into something else. So, it consisted of eating like buckets of ice cream like every Friday cuz it's the only thing that would give me like the same kind of sugar sugar rush. So, I had to you know, I had to try and um do things in in in other ways for sure. Like mostly eating a [ __ ] load of sweets because it's the only thing that would give me the same kind of craving satisfaction. Yeah, cuz you're going to be left with an awful lot of spare time as well, which is one of the difficulties of well, trying to find new things to do on the weekends. Um but there's obviously you live in Dublin, so there's a bunch of stuff to do, but when you don't know they're there, it's hard to do. Like did you like obviously with the MMA you just do Monday to Friday. The after is the 6:00 in the morning or is it 6:00? It is 6:00. Yeah, 6:00 6:30, yeah. 6:00 6:30. And then the weekends like how did you feel obviously the Friday night you said you had sweets. Was it Did you start doing different activities, going out with friends for lunch, stuff like that? Was Was it nice to start doing all these different things as opposed to just being drunk and and partying? It was refreshing, but it was actually overwhelmingly scary at times because I wasn't used to having that much free time on my hands. Like a lot of my weekends, my Saturdays and Sundays would be spent in bed all day, you know, hungover. So, you think on paper having a lot of free time sounds fantastic, but it been it can be quite overwhelming. At least it was for me anyway because I didn't know what to do because I didn't know what else I could do. I didn't know that there was other options available to me to go enjoy my time, you know? And to your point earlier on about like the first few weeks, like the MMA obviously took up a lot of that time, but there's a thing called um there's a thing called the pink cloud. So, the pink cloud is what a lot of people get when they enter sobriety or give up their drink or drug of choice. Um and it's basically like a huge euphoric, you know, rush, like you're on top of the world and you can do anything. And then that kind of levels off after a while, and you kind of I you get slammed back to reality. At least that was for me, anyway. Um and then you're like, "Crap, where do I go from here?" So, in terms of like filling my time, um I can't really I think a lot of I think I just filled my time like resting, honestly. I I think at that time cuz I was so battered and bruised from doing MMA for the five for the um for the, you know, 5 days a week. Um I think it it it definitely got harder after that season ended. That's kind of where I struggled a lot, if I'm being honest, because that was all gone now. And now I had that season ended in, what, November? And then we came straight into Christmas season. Yeah. So, that was extremely difficult. And I remember me and Sean me and John like um my like partner, we went to we tickets to a drag show in the George, and it was like maybe two or three weeks after my season eight had ended, and I hadn't picked up drinking yet at that I hadn't picked up drinking again at that point. And I said everyone was like really like it was actually one of the first events they had like during COVID when they um restrictions got um yeah, when the restrictions got eased a little bit. And everyone was just like out of it and like wrecked drunk, and I was like like almost going into panic mode. I was like, "Fuck, I have to like I have to get out of here." And it wasn't so long ago that I would have been one of those people. You know, so I have to go outside and like I have to go outside get some air and then like you know, watch the show and then that kind of finish it and like high tail out of there. Like it's really like the first year is literally about surviving. At least it was for me anyway. It was just like don't drink, don't drink, don't drink, don't drink. Because it takes such a long time to unravel all those pieces as to why I was drinking. And and it's gotten easier now, you know, going in like going into this second such third year. Um and this is where I feel like the real work is being done and I've become more comfortable with it now. It's not as difficult um as it once was. But the first year is just like it's torment. Like it's for me it was torment. Um because you're it's ripping away everything that you've known. I always say to people like, you know, giving up drinking if you're addicted to it or if if it's damaging in any way, it's like think of something you do every day and then you have then you can't do that thing anymore. Something simple. You know what I mean? Like phone for the day. Lit lit Gosh, literally take away someone's phone for the day, right? That's what it feels like. That's a great analogy. Brilliant. Um that's what it feels like. And it's really difficult and anyone who goes through this process including myself like [ __ ] hats off. It's really difficult, you know? Because you have to face you have to face all the really [ __ ] things about yourself. You know, what could be considered a defect of character. All the worst parts of yourself. All the worst parts of myself. I had to I had to face all the worst parts of myself. All the things that I hated about myself and all the things that I didn't want to know of and that I covered up with drinking and snorting coke. So when you come to reality with those things, it's the biggest gut punch in the whole entire world. And your body is crying out for this thing that you always used to get used to get to it. And now it doesn't have that thing anymore, compounded with any other mental or physical problems on top of that. So, and that all happens within a very short period of time. You know, what could be from a couple of weeks to a couple of months for me it was anyway. And it was really tough, but such is the process, you know. Yeah. Yeah, no, and like you said, you were obviously drinking, filling the void and and doing like and I think that's the case with a lot of people. I always say it's not the problem, it's the kind of it's a symptom of the problem. Um is that like that addictive like most people I know that have had those issues, like you said, might have been big gamers and could have played like 24 hours straight when they were kids or they always want to fill it with something again, eventually having to come to that, like you said, and find out what the issues are, why you've taken away the thing that you used to cover up with. I I like to say I that sounds tormentful to you as a person, to your mind, as your soul for the first couple of weeks or months trying to get through it. So, fair play to you for getting through that and then continuing on uh to become what you are now because like that I've talked to many times. I've had great uh chats with you, I've chatted to you through messages. I've seen you fight. Uh I've seen you fight once live and I've seen the the last fight there recently as well. So, like when you look back on all that now and do you still because some people say they take it one day at a time. Do you still take it one day at a time? Do you ever feel those urges still at all? Yeah, I do feel them. They're not as They're not as frequent as they once were. Um I Like it's it's a bit like it's a bit difficult for for me to take it one day at a time and what I mean by that is that for me I wasn't an everyday drinker. I wasn't someone who needed it in the morning. I wasn't someone who needed it at night before I went to bed. My thing was that once I started I couldn't stop. And I was going to it was oblivion or nothing, you know? So it's it wasn't something that was on my mind everyday. But it would definitely there would definitely be a lot of true triggers. There's certain scenarios that I can't place myself in because it will trigger me. Or say for example like if I'm walking through town on a busy Saturday night or a busy Friday night and I see everyone outside the pub smoking and drinking, that's when it comes into my brain. And I'll go, "Oh my god, I'd love a drink right now and no one would even know that I went and drank, you know?" So it's not necessarily days for me, it's more like places, people, things, scenarios that I used to put myself in. And like the brain my brain doesn't forget that either. My brain doesn't forget that these are places that I used to be and these are things that I used to do. Like it's hard for me sometimes to be in like to put like it even took me ages to enjoy concerts again because I just used to get wasted at concerts all the time, you know? Like so just little things like that. Um yeah. So people, places, and things, not so much days. Um yeah. Yeah, no I get that. Triggers like like said, walking down the road, especially through Dublin city center when it's hopping at night. The atmosphere, everything about it just feels And you know what? I live in Dublin city center. Oh, so you get Do do you live in city center? Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it does be buzzing, it does be hopping at night times now. And then obviously I work in the city center cuz I work obviously I told you what it's like. I've actually been around you can see actually the different levels of addiction in the city now as well, which is quite scary. That's a whole another story and that's another whole another entry with someone else as well, I think. But No, I I want to commend you for how far you've gotten cuz like that like you said, there's different scenarios and it's just so easy. Like you just need to control that first one because after the first one you can't control the rest. So like that's like I just want to say congratulations on how far you've come. I'm sorry for everything you've had to go through for that. But like talking to you now those experiences have made you who you were, made you as tough as you are. Um like I said, you still might have anxiety and stuff like that, but everyone has bouts of anxiety. But like you said, you you found ways to manage manage it. Um what would you recommend to someone who just feels like just say they're in the position you they need to change. What would be the first What was the first steps you kind of took? Was it to go to the after was it or to reach out to a friend or therapy or something like that? What What would be the first steps for someone cuz a lot of people doesn't don't know that just the likes of the Narcotics Anonymous uh Alcoholics Anonymous, which uh you might not have went to, but they don't know what steps to take. What was the first steps you took? Um so I actually I actually went to AA very briefly and I tried NA very briefly as well. Uh or sorry, CA. CA, um which is Cocaine Anonymous. Um I I tried those methods and they did not work for me and they didn't vibe with me, but I know that they work for millions of other people. So that's wonderful. Um in terms of the advice that I would give or the steps that I would give is that I probably say I probably say do some do some deep diving into the why. Into the why of, you know, you you you want to stop and what what path you want to take. Um because the best thing about this journey is that this path is yours. And no one can tell you any different. And it's on nobody's time but your own. Whether that takes 6 weeks or 6 years to get to that stage like myself, you know? And then find out maybe what support method works for you in the best way. Um, I tried lots of different things. As I said, I went tried AA, I tried TA. Um, I've been in therapy. I was in therapy for for 2 years, which really really helped. Um, I went out of it for a while, now I'm back in it. Um, try and find something outside of your day-to-day sphere. Like for me, that was that was MMA, you know? I think it's really hard to give advice on this certain topic because it's so complex and multifaceted and almost no two people are the same. But, for me, what personally really helped was doing a huge deep dive into self-discovery and coming to a conclusion on the reasons why I was doing this. Like, why did I such a [ __ ] death wish, you know? Why did I want to hurt myself all the time? Why did I want to abuse my body? You know? And that really really helped me understand myself in terms of getting it to conclusion as to why I wanted to keep going down the path of living. Why I wanted to keep going down the path of not having alco- any alcohol and cocaine in my body. Um, that's probably the best advice that I would give to someone if they are struggling. Now, there are obviously resources that you can reach out to as well, of course. Um, I know there's like the national um, national drugs and alcohol helpline. I think there's that one, too. Um, but it can be really scary for people to to take those first steps. So, in order for me to figure out why I wanted to take those three steps, I had to I had to start here. You know? Figure out why you want to stop, how you want to stop, why like when you want to stop, and how you're going to stop. I could have said those four sentences instead of going on a two three minute monologue. No, no, no, I said cuz like that's your experience and I like that they could be all in different orders. And like you said, you dived inside yourself. A lot of people actually go get the help and then dive inside themselves. Like I said, no two people are the same. So, I not that I want you to say, "Oh, this is what people should do." What you done is your own experience. Cuz if I ever said just my son, for example, I don't want you to drink because this, that, and the other. I turn around and say, "I wouldn't drink again because of X, Y, and Z." So, in other sort of way. So, um no, it's been a pleasure speaking to you again. Is there anything else that you'd like to touch on before we go? Is there anything that I I might have left out? No, I think we had a great chat. I think we covered covered the majority of it. So, thanks so much for having me. No, it's been an absolute pleasure. And I want to thank you again for your time. Again, being so honest and open as well because it's not an easy even though you are open about it, it's still scary to have this one-on-one conversation about it. Um and then have have it out there as well. So, I want to commend you for your bravery and and everything you just bring to the table. And for being a good person and stopping and having a chat at PFL last week. What a show. That was a great show. And it was great to see you inside the confines of my phone. It was nice. I actually had to go cuz I seen you and I was like, "Is that Derek?" And I was out to have a couple of drinks. And I was like, "I'm not going to go over him because you were wearing the hat." I was like, "I'm not going to go over him because I don't know if it's him." AND THEN I SAID, "YES." AND I WAS LIKE, "IT IS [ __ ] him. Now I feel like an asshole." Yeah, yeah, cuz you actually did walk by me. And I was like, "He doesn't recognize this gorgeous face." Like shame on him. That's what it was. That's what it was. I looked cuz I looked back and you were smoking. And I think it was that your partner you were with or was it just a or you No, that was my little brother. I don't know. I don't know. We'll take this part out of the recording. No, we got to leave this in. Yeah. But I was looking and I seen you and you I seen you kind of glance over at me and I was like I don't know if that is him though. Cuz I was after having a couple of drinks and I was like I'm not going to go over and start talking and then someone's going to go who does this [ __ ] think he is just coming over to I then when you came over to Jess I was like it is him. When you started talk then I was like oh it is it is it is and then I was like now I feel like a [ __ ] Awkward. But it was it was. But look, thank you again for your time. I really appreciate it and I will see you probably at one of the shows coming up next year. Cool. I'll see you then. Thank you so much. Perfect. I'll be in contact with you anyways. Cool. Thank you. Thank you.