I’ll Get Sacked For This

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Combat Confidential #019 - S3E4 - Paul Browne I’ll Get Sacked For This This week, we sit down with Paul Browne, a distinguished Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt and a prominent voice in the Irish MMA scene. Get exclusive insights into what it takes to be a sports commentator, and…

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yeah all right um hello everyone welcome back today we have who I like to call the voice of Ireland the voice of Irish MMA at least uh Mr Paul Brown and it's certainly um it's exciting to have you in here because before you even talk yet I love hearing your voice you you you have that voice for for talking you know what I mean like it's a deep kind of confident voice and I love hearing it yeah so it comes in useful all right in my line of work you know to be loud and and be able to make yourself heard absolutely all right so look um we jump right into this I got just a few these are uh straightforward questions just kind of you know answer them first thing comes off top of your head I'm going to shuffle them up let's do it and we'll get into it uh all right is my favorite just because uh I'm maybe maybe I'll start with this one I have a little running tally um coffee or tea oh coffee coffee yeah you you ever drink tea yeah and I drink decaf tea really yeah because I'm very sensitive to caffeine so like I have coffee and I I can't touch it after lunchtime so if I even have like some Cups of Tea during the day my sleep might get a little bit affected so yeah yeah decaf tea I do like a cup of tea but uh yeah I can't go to town and it I'm a softy so yeah right on right on aside from your your commentating and um you know your martial arts background do you have any other kind of hidden talents oh I don't know I'm kind of weird like that I do lots of lots of things um music yeah I suppose music would be yeah yeah I I used to sing and play guitar like in bars and [ __ ] like a long long time ago in a former life yeah yeah that was that was my thing you know what what are you saying do you have like a go-to song or H I like some YouTube Bob Marley Boby that kind of stuff yeah yeah so I lived in Germany like did you what year are we now like yeah probably 20 20 something years ago and my job was just playing in some bars in Germany and Austria so where in Germany uh Munich and then in salsburg every second weekend as well so I used to uh used to just drink the night away and and um yeah yeah get paid to stand on stage and entertain the the revelers in the bar so it was good fun yeah no way that's cool I used to live in I used to live in Germany as well I lived in kurn oh cool spot yeah Munich there's a I was in the military but uh I know there's a army base down near Munich that's right yeah yeah did come across a lot of Americans then or yeah you you get a lot of people traveling through and definitely a lot of Americans Americans and Australians particularly in Irish bars they'll go there because you know it's um it's a novelty anywhere in the world you know and uh it's it's a place where you can really just get lit and have a good time so yeah back when I don't even drink anymore but Jesus back then that was kind of mostly what I did so it was H it was a good combination but you couldn't do it long term that's that's awesome that's cool man um that's really cool okay so all right here we go what's something you're terrible at football I used to play football for years but Jesus I was never any good and then I transition to um Jiu-Jitsu and and MMA and stuff and yeah yeah kind of found a home there what was it about football that you just you know found hard um no I liked it but just I wasn't very talented athletically um it was just uh I don't know I I I enjoyed playing with my I I played with my friends that I grew up with so I enjoyed the whole process but yeah just didn't really have the didn't really have the gift you know uh but certainly I found a lot more success um in in the Jiu-Jitsu game you know HEK yeah uh what is your favorite childhood memory favorite childhood memory Jesus there's a lot uh or even the first one yeah the first right outside the house where I lived like we lived in a small Council of state and there was a football pitch right outside so there was like houses all the way down one side of the street and then just this big green area with goalpost and it was just we congregated there every day every day all day and there was a gang of us there was five of us like the same age just boys and we all grew up at the time the house the Housing state was pretty small it was like 30 something houses but we were lucky and that the five of us grew up like brothers uh it was really cool so you just moment You' get home from school on your summer holidays it'd be the first man out' be knocking around on all the doors dragging everybody out and you wouldn't come back in until you were forced back in to eat something it was it was good times yeah yeah know I I noticed that now um because it was like that uh for myself growing up you know like we were always outside and we're always going to uh you know our friend's house knocking the door can Jimmy come out and play you know that kind of thing and I I see it now with my kids or my oldest you know cuz she has her friends on the road here and you know I like that like it's just it brings me back and I I think about it and I'm like you know like so good yeah yeah good times um what would be your ideal vacation God I'm not very good at sitting still like if I don't have something to do I I get really restless and I I start looking for [ __ ] to do I'm not good at just lying around so I don't think it would be something like uh lying on a beach I got to travel to Brazil there in December to commentate for brave and it was like hang out here for a couple of days there's a beach there but you're also involved in the show so you can go to the weigh-ins and then you're going to the fights and you know bit of research to do and you can hang around and meet some Fighters that was kind of cool you know okay something like that something like that a little working holiday but somewhere nice yeah yeah good no yeah I'm kind of the same way I don't my wife likes to sit in the beach which I can do for about 5 minutes yeah um and then yeah I need to be doing something you know even it doesn't need to be you know anything productive just anything really yeah I'm I'm not good with time to with just time to kill I need I need something on my plate you know occupi J yeah uh in the next year what one goal you have uh that's a good one I suppose just in the line of work I'm in is to basically take what the next step whatever that may be it's difficult to kind of know what opportunities arise because in that line of work the opportunity there's not just shitloads of opportunities out there like when you go into commentating there's not a load of you know vacancies in that line of work all of the promotions around the world they all have their their team or their guys so it's like like I fell into it just purely it was a the right circumstance I was the right guy at the right time the right place so um and then with a few promotions there because no l Kei was kind of stepping away he was the guy who was doing my role originally I was basically there to snap up and he was there he helped me he was really good with it and you know basically there to snap up some of that work and then I did a decent job and and got some other opportunities but go you know going forward and progressing into you know from the regional scene into the big leagues a little harder to do but you know you just got to you know PR put yourself in that position where if an opportunity did arrive arise you'd be you'd be ready so yeah something like that would be cool if it happened but just keep working just keep grafting you know he yeah uh all right if you could have dinner with anyone Dead or Alive who would it be oh good question let's see let's see Shane mallan I think that would be fun that would be entertaining yeah yeah uh what about what about him do you you uh oh man he was just a just a genius you know and so unique and so different I'm always fascinated by people who do things so so differently to the to the world around them like you can try and name another Rockstar in history that is remotely like Shane mcowan it's just not you know they're not out there you know whereas a lot of people tend to follow the same formula and and have success that way but then you get outliers like him so uh I don't know he just spung to mind there but um yeah good heck yeah absolutely yeah be it be just interesting to see what what it's like to actually be in the company of someone like that you know 100% is the the the kind of Aura and uh like gravity that a person like that kind of just has around them like yeah it comes uh Michael Jackson comes to mind because I was listening to a podcast this morning and they were talking about him and saying like people don't understand like effect he has on mass masses of people you know and just to kind of be around someone who has that effect on on people would be be very interesting at interesting to observe people like that you know people who just stand out like there's a lot of us on the on this planet like but there's not a lot of people that are kind of cutting their own path and being super successful like that you know so yeah it always interested just to get get get in the vicinity of those people and observe them you know yeah definitely I remember being around like Conor McGregor before he made it big time got be an energy and you could see like this was like when he was still fighting in cage Warriors way back in the day and I remember just being in the same rooms him a few times and just observing and just going there's something weirdly I've never seen an energy like that out of somebody or I've never seen that s of that sort of Charisma and this guy is not famous he was broke as [ __ ] at the time and it was like okay so yeah you could you could see that he was very very different to anything you'd ever seen in the game before so yeah there are people in all lines work like that and uh yeah I'd like to yeah definitely Shane mwn would uh would fall into that category they just stand out a mile you know heck yeah uh what's your EDC what do you what do you carry on you every day what do you what's something that's always on you oh God my phone I think like everybody else I suppose that's the easy answer CU our lives are on our phones now aren't they on uh yeah I'd say that's that's that's probably the the number on my phone on my wallet are you apple or iPhone uh I'm a Samsung yeah so uh or apple or iPhone ID sorry yeah Apple or Android is what I meant uh right same here Android all the way yeah absolutely too old to learn new tricks so getting getting an iPhone would stress me out too much you know I used to have uh I used to have an iPhone before the phone I have now and I liked it and then I switched because I couldn't get um they wouldn't discount the phone on a like a new plan okay so I made the switch and it was so much better it was I don't even know if it was better it was just it was it was different but like a like a like a nice different you know what I mean yeah like felt less um Apple likes to kind of like spoon feed people things you know and kind of cuddle like the they cuddle the user experience um and with Android is not like that very much kind of have to figure it out but then again maybe that's why a lot of people like apple yeah who knows um if there was one skill you could learn you know kind of at the snap a finger what would it be that's interesting oh I don't know I kind of try my hand at anything I want to try my hand that I'm I'm I'm very much like I see someone doing something cool I'm like oh I could do that yeah and then I just give it a go you know just this is what probably why I'm in the line of work I'm in at the moment and you know it's uh I don't think there's anything that I've look looked at and thought Oh I could do that and not tried so I don't know I don't think I'd have an answer you know just by but just because of that yeah I think I've sort of just thrown my my hat in the ring and sort of I've done a lot of interest and sort of things like play music and stuff and uh it's just cuz I'm yeah I always I like to pull the trigger on things and see how they go you know right on uh no one asked but mine is um languages if I could just pick up a language right away that's a good show i' that's that's yeah like I I've been I've been studying Spanish for the better part of 15 almost 20 years now and I still strug yeah yeah um yeah that's that's what I would pick uh last book you read last book I read I've I've moved more toward audio books at the moment listen to same thing yeah let me just check cuz it's actually been I've gotone podcast heavy over the last while so let me see what was the last one on my that even works too like what's your podcast uh what's your what's the last podcast you listen to or the one that you listen to most of the time oh I was listening to the ringer podcast this morning PT Carol shout out p m palal um he he does that with Ariel helwani and Chuck mindel Hall and when Ariel's not there PT presents the the show so I was listening to that just uh this morning while moving around the house doing a few things so uh I suppose that's that's the the next best answer to uh to save me scrambling through my audible see what was the last one I read you know I read um you know steo um I read his book I I happened to be in the library and they had it there and I picked it up and it it was a good book U but it's like I couldn't finish it partly because like I have I feel like I have undiagnosed dyslexia yeah so it's difficult to read but um I listen to I would listen to like a lot of podcast and stuff he'd be on and not discounting the book it's you know it's a lot of the same stories that are you know in and out of there but it was good it was good it was very interesting a lot of detail on some of his life and the crazy [ __ ] he would get up to yeah the most recent one I've been reading actually now is you reminded me of Carol Frampton's autobiography the boxer from Bast okay but I haven't completed it I've been sort of reading it on planes but I haven't been on a plane in a while so there's about half of it I haven't actually read yet a friend of mine uh was talking to me about that as well he was recommending giv DEC so far yeah it's mostly like the part where I've got up to he's kind of just turned professional but a lot of it is about his childhood grown up and like the religious divide in Belfast and stuff you know the cultural divide within boxing and and that so it's uh yeah it's been interesting but I must get around to completing it because I don't think I've touched it in about two months cuz if I'm at home I've just got so much [ __ ] happening that there isn't time to sit still you know so it's uh it's it's usually when I'm in an airport or on a long flight that kind of read yeah know I'm the same way um usually in the middle of the night when I'm out here trying to avoid my video editing or whatever that's when I read my books are over there and um yeah the same way got so much going on yeah but um all right look let's let's get to the the meat and potatoes as they say all right um so going back okay uh you know many many years ago what was it that kind of sparked your interest in you know kind of art what what brought you into it I was just contemplating this yesterday as it happens um so like I started training like MMA and Jiu-Jitsu I think I was 31 kickboxing really yeah like so I was you know people are always saying I'm too old to start and then they're like you know 29 I'm like what are you talking about like you know it doesn't make any sense to me just just [ __ ] do it but I started then but I was always fascinated like by the whole thing so when I remembered when I was growing up you know martial arts movies and stuff I was crazy about when I was a kid and things like that and I actually did Karate for a little bit but like a very short period of time I grw up in a small town and there was karate there for a little while like a few months I remember doing it and then it wasn't there anymore and like there was you know you didn't have this is like I grew up in the 80s and and the early 90s so it's was like um there wasn't really the the options around that there are now do you know what I mean um but I was always into that and I kind of you know followed the route that all my friends did of you know playing football and drinking at the weekends but then I sort of stumbled into it when I was I think it was about 31 I started training um I was watching more and more of the UFC and things like that at the time and yeah an opportunity just popped up I was training a guy I was strength and conditioning coach for like 20 something years and I was training a guy for his professional debut he was fighting on Battle Zone which was uh that was the promotion run by my coach Andy Ryan um I think it was around 2011 so he had his own club and I started training there a little bit doing a few classes next thing you know I'm fighting in the ring kickboxing fights and then I'm doing Jiu-Jitsu and then I'm up in team Rhino doing Jiu-Jitsu and a bit of MMA and then I'm just I haven't left so uh yeah I sort of just fell into it just cuz uh as I said sometimes I just see something that looks cool like oh I could do that and then something shiny yeah and then then I just get stuck there and uh yeah I'm still like I think that's what what was it about it that kind of really you know Drew you in because you know I'm I'm someone who would I hobby hop you know what I mean uh you know I go from I get fixated on one thing for you know period of time and then I move on to something else something else and for me at least like Jiu-Jitsu has been the one thing that I've done the longest you know and what is it what is it about that really kind of keeps you hooked oh I don't know um there's probably deep line psychological answer behind it as well I mean you grow up in a council estate in a broken home and all of that like there's uh you grow up in your fair share of fights and in the state full of young young boys as well so there was a lot of that growing up um I was very small and skinny when I was growing up as well so I do remember getting the [ __ ] beat out of me quite a few times and and yeah there's probably a little bit of that you know behind it you know let's [ __ ] learn how to fight you know and and whatnot but uh yeah I think sporting wise I love the competition aspect of sport or always did you know like that's why again why I played soccer and gay football for years yeah the frustration of of being part of a team and then you know not having full control over the outcome I always that that that really one thing that pissed me off where is now when you compete it's down to you you know if you if you have all your your your ducks in a row and you you cross all the te's and Dot all the eyes then you give yourself a good chance to winning but sometimes you could do that when playing football and some other [ __ ] would screw it up and then you'd just be so pissed off and frustrated um so I think I think that's a big thing and nowadays it's like I I don't compete really because just my life is just too chaotic for finding the time to dedicate to to training to compete because I think that you really have to dedicate yourself to put the work in if you're going to compete you know um so nowadays my focus I still train week in week out I'm actually teaching a little bit of Jiu-Jitsu now tonight but I just enjoy the process I enjoy working and training alongside some of the guys who have fights and competitions coming up and and just being there to help out uh having a place to go to Deacon press as well I mean throughout the years and your if the longer you're training you realize like your life has gone through all of these different phases and stages and then you know you've got one constant there and it's it's your your your Club where you can go to and get on the mats and just uh you know that's that's just a Content throughout that whole process so the evolution of uh seeing our team chop and change over the years has been spectacular some of the experiences so I don't think I'd ever drift away from it you know I think it's I'm just stuck there now so I'm part of the furniture right on um like do you find like do you do you find like you know kind of hold on hold on like um yourself when you started do you see that and other people who were kind of coming in and you know being introduced to the sport yeah yeah yeah all the different phases you go through where you're just down there you're getting absolutely rinsed by everybody you're newbie and you just don't know what you're doing and then you get good and then you get cocky cuz you get good and then you know you're competing all the time because you're hungry and you want to [ __ ] win everything and smash everyone I'm seeing all the different phases that I went through and I'm seeing it in other people you know so it's it's funny you know it's interesting and uh then yeah you just grow and mature as a martial artist over the years the longer you're doing it and and uh it's a really really interesting uh Road you know and it's it's great it's it's great to see people get their just Rewards or or just really fall in love with the game whether that's MMA or Jiu-Jitsu or whatever and really develop and become good and then you know you see them making their their competition debut or having their first fight making their professional debut like uh Jamie Abbott Bisset there made his Pro debut with cage Warriors in the open about the other week Jamie and his sist Nadine they came to the gym as kids and at the time I like I'm I'm relatively light now but when I was competing I was even lighter than this I would always make an effort to stay under 70 kilos so like you would be just primarily training with all the lighter people in the gym so we would generally do a little bit of work with them as they were coming in and training and they're just teenagers but I remember cornering them in Jiu-Jitsu competitions and now she's a pro MMA fighter she's an amateur world champion Jamie made his Pro debut of the week I got to walk out to the cage with him and and he smashed some some really good polish kid around in the cage and finished them and it's just like but it just gives you such a b seeing that you know it's really I was like a proud D you know I went into um I went into the like when they're backstage at the cage Warriors office just for anyone watching I work there so I'm generally in there with the fighters anyway but uh generally the fighters have to go into the backstage office an hour before the fight to collect their official cage Warriors gloves so I went down I got Jam's ones for him and they were asking me in the office like why you didn't what why didn't you just send him down I said I'm like me [ __ ] son he's really nervous out there I'm just trying to I'm trying to just look after him here and you know I was taking care of everything that needed to be taken care of we just went out me and kie Mah just H stretched and folded out his gloves for about 20 minutes and then stuck them on his hands and just let let him at it and he went out and he kicked kicked that PO poor polish kid's ass so um there's a million stories like that where you see people just developing and getting better and putting in the work and getting the reward for it and it's really uh it's really cool to see you know so I think that's that that that that keeps me happy it keeps me smiling in the game these days you know all like fory teammates one on that cage Warrior show and it was insane it was really good you know heck yeah no it really regardless of how prolific your your gym is um you really the people who are there all the time you know like it does become like a little family oh yeah you know and like it's weird like I don't know if other sports are like this because I never played any other sports um and The Limited experience I do have with it it wasn't uh but like it really does you know little you know really good friends um you get this uh this kind of sense of family with folks who you know aren't your family you know and I think a lot of people need that and you know for me at least that that was something that kind of Drew me in and I think it's really kind of to help me stick it out yeah our team is definitely like that we are very tightnit we're very close in comparison to other sports absolutely it's a thing and the reason that the reason that the I don't know it feels like there's a lot more of a bond there is like these guys are going out to fight in front of like you know it's on UFC fight P there's a lot of people watching there's a couple of thousand people there in the arena what they're putting on the line is is crazy you know so like if your friend loses a football match you you might be a bit like [ __ ] sorry hard look me but when these guys are let just put dedicating their whole lives to this this art and this craft and this game and then they're going in there and for those 15 minutes everything's on the line and you know they come out of there with their hand raised it's it's it's unbelievable for them and if they don't you know it's devastating for them so I think it matters more so it's definitely definitely a thing that sorry footballers I'm offending you guys but uh yeah in comparison to a lot of even like even with like football like blame can be pushed around you know what I mean you know you can you know have your you know certain players who maybe maybe performed really well um and then other players who maybe their performance hindered their great performance you know so like blame can be pushed around whereas like in MMA it's on you you know those 15 minutes it's up to you the work's been done or it hasn't been you know it's that old cliche that everybody's around when you win when lose you're sitting in an empty room you know so we we do stay tight and close nit in those circumstances and ultimately when these guys do lose fights they have to go off and fix them fix their own [ __ ] heads and then uh you know deal with deal with that and and and resolve to come back some people just drift away from the game but yeah there certainly it does make us all fairly fairly close and tight knit down there you know and uh I really do enjoy especially in our club like we we we do have a great emphasis on the family as ECT of it we have a lot of like brothers and sisters who are training together like James Sheen there just won the world title you know and he's down there constantly with his two brothers training and and um I'll give you an example J Harris won the the middle fight on the main card at cage Warriors so I'm for the majority of the show I'm sort of walking the fighters to the cage and then I'm kind of hanging back in the crowd and I'm watching the the fights with my headset on just if anyone needs me and I'm watching the fight in the arena and whatnot but for the ones on the main card I I basically walked him out to the cage and I sat cage side you know in the cage Warrior t-shirt so I'm trying not to be publicly celebrating too much I found that impossible but I was watching Jar's fight and he won so dramatically he was getting his ass whooped basically and he submitted the guy and was a massive moment biggest fight of his life so I'm walking around the cage to where they're bringing the fighters out of the cage he has so many supporters in the crowd is unreal they're all coming over his dad his little brother who trains with us as well was on his dad's shoulders and he was crying tears of joy and they pictures yeah they were coming up to the barrier to to kind of catch a glimpse of J as cuz the Medics are bringing the two fighters out of the cage says Dad leans over go can you bring him into jar and I said look I can't I'll get [ __ ] sacked like if I do something like that you know I'm I'm an employee I'm in the cage that area and then I look at his brother and he was crying up tears and like a [ __ ] it here give him to me so I grabbed him like he's he's not a small child like he's you know but I grabbed him and I WRA he wrapped his arms around me like a little baby and I just ran through the crowd just kicking people out of the way was screaming at J hold up there hold up there so have to through the crowd and I got I got got his brother to him and um he walked into the backstage with us he went for his medical with him you know he just wanted to be with his brother so our our team is like that it's it's you know everybody has their family around like I bring my kids down there just to train a little bit of Jiu-Jitsu with me and stuff you know so it's it's a really welcoming environment so that's kind of a lot of the reason that we we do have that bit of closeness there's a lot of that within the club that's awesome yeah I love hearing that I love hearing that about other clubs and you know that that that exists everywhere basically you know it's not just a once off you know for me so I love hearing that oh yeah but um all right back into it um so you know what what I know you hit on a little bit earlier but um just explain you know kind of the the circumstances of the events that fell around you starting your commentating career but actually just before that you um you were a judge and a referee before that right yeah for like six years yeah okay um I guess start there you know what what Drew you to do you know judging and refereeing oh uh at the time I wasn't really I had only been doing well Jiu-Jitsu for a few years I was doing MMA a few years before that and I I got I got a really bad arm break like a dislocated elbow and kind of couldn't even hit a bag for like two years so I kind of just fell into the routine of just doing Jiu-Jitsu and competing in Jiu-Jitsu all the time but I'm more I would rather watch MMA than Jiu-Jitsu you know I'm more into the the sport the aesthetic of MMA so yeah I just said there was a judging and refen course coming up um it was on here a small one in Ireland and then Mark Godard was doing one as well so a few of us from Team rhyo like me coach Andy and and Paul Redmond and stuff a handful of us went on and did that and uh yeah just just basically decided you know I'd like to be involved in it somehow that's a really cool thing to do you know um I think it's good to give back to the sport that you're invol involved in as well but it was a nice experience just to get to go and you know be at the fights every weekend have a decent seat and see how it all works so yeah I was kind of doing that for a few years and as I was saying earlier nokee was generally the MC and the commentator on a lot of the shows um alongside Phil Campbell so I would be at all the shows working alongside these guys so i' know them pretty well and then no basically life circumstances announced he was taking a step back from it and I had just done my first commentary gig at grappl and realized okay I can do this I'm actually okay at this and you know I loved it as well so I was like I'd really like to do it on MMA but all the MMA shows have their their commentators in place whatever but then yeah as circumstance would have it no was taking a step back so I just uh I messaged him I messaged Phil they were like yeah yeah go for it yeah so I messaged a few promoters and few a few took a chance on me and just said yep no problem didn't even hesitate so uh cuz again they would know me from being involved with the shows which put myself in the place to do it you know uh being around the scene for a long time which is very very important and yeah just snowball and here we are kind of we we I'm on a desk most weekends beside the cage talking about fights so yeah people are probably sicking my voice at this stage but here going strum who uh again who was the kind of the first promotion to kind of really you know bring you injoy your love like that two of them um cage Legacy and eure Bey M's promotion okay so I got on to them and just said look I can do that I can do both jobs pop me in they're like yeah no hustle let's do it and once I did those first two then other promotion started just G giving me uh giving me a shout and then uh yeah it's been interesting some good experiences come out of it you know and uh hopefully a few more good ones to come along the way heck yeah so like what is it about you know kind of I guess these so those two promotions were the ones kind of you know really kind of launched you into into this you know like was there anything about you know kind of either of them that um you know made you really enjoy it or I was already working on a lot of pretty much all the cage Legacy events as an official anyway so it's like it was it was easier I think deck said at the time they they kind of didn't have anyone lined up when I contacted him okay um I think he said at the time they were they were going to maybe do like a competition or something or uh you know something online to to try and get yeah let's get contest and get people to vote and get people audition and vote they were going to do something like that he's good for ideas like mad like but he said so much easier if you just [ __ ] do it because we know we know you we know how to work with you and like I get people messaging me literally on a weekly basis you know um you know how do I get into doing that you know it's not as it was it's just not that an easy thing to crack into it's not just like applying for a normal job yeah I didn't just walk into it because I was I happened to be there I had put in 10 years of training on the mats getting punched in the face getting Str I know the game like I understand the sport I can speak about the sport and I can watch it and I can I can break down to the view or what's happening and you know it's not just something that I do cuz it's cool 100% your your breakdowns that you do like I love watching them because they're very detailed and you know it's clearly coming from dare I say an expert you know and well what I do is I listen to my coaches and I am blessed I have the best coaches around me the bet the the level of the guys I train I have to sit and look around on those mats sometimes go oh my God and we just saw it at cage Warriors 170 like two guys winning on the main card I got one of them winning on the Solomon winning on the the feature preliminary Bel look impressive victories yes and my coach is there and he's doing this so [ __ ] long like I'm blessed and I'm just I'm I'm in that mix and I'm learning off those guys and I'm training alongside those guys we uh every week and you know I'm I'm picking up ideas I sat and I watched him Main Event cage so the headset I have I basically have a thing where the the producers can talk to me because I'm obviously working I can switch the commentary on and off but it only has one ear so on the other ear I've got klie Matten sitting beside me who I trained striking with one of the best striking coaches in the game so I'm sitting there you know these are the people I'm learning off and me and Collie are just sitting there and he's explaining to me well this is what he needs to do now and I'm obsessed with those kind of details I [ __ ] listen you know what I mean I don't just turn up and trying hard I turn up and I I watch and I learn and I listen so it's about it's about just you know so soaking up that knowledge and now I'm in a position where oh [ __ ] now all that stuff that I've learned I can actually use that so yeah I've been blessed over the years you know it hasn't happened by accident and a lot of people are contacting me as I was trying to say they're they're contacting me but they might only be around the game a year or two I'm like I don't think it's going to be that easy for you to just walk into a job along this lines it's you know I served a long long time like 15 years an overnight success or something I love that yeah and I'm I'm only I'm only just doing this a wet week and I'm still sort trying to get my hand get the get the hang of how to commentate how to do it right I sit beside Phil Campbell on the desk sometimes and he's just so good and I learned so much from working with him I've I've commentated along alongside a lot of really good people and I I I learned things from each of them so I'm only just just starting to learn it at the moment but yeah it's um definitely not an expert but I would say I'm certainly someone who has been in a position to soak up a lot of knowledge so it's it's nice to have that now and be able to put it to good use yeah that that's 100% man like that that's I think it's understated how you know kind of the people that you work and train around how much of an effect they have on your what I trying to say um yeah like you know your skills you know like you learn you learn a lot through kind of osmosis like you know absorbing you know from other people and what they're saying and um you know they don't necessarily have to be you know teaching or instructing you directly but just uh to be a sponge and to kind of soak up all that information is really good and you know a lot of people myself even you know have a hard time doing that so yeah that's awesome um you know so speaking of you like how how do you stay so updated you know cuz it there's two people if I ever have a question about a fighter or an event coming up two people come to mind yourself and Dave frell oh yeah Dave how do you two well how do you how do you stay up to date on everything be it the events you know or if you're commentating you know the fighters like cuz there's times where like he pulled out facts that like how does he know that you know it's sad yeah you know what that's something I learned off Phil Campbell the first show I commentated on cage Legacy I was sitting beside him and I had some notes you know I I prepared some notes on all of the fighters and I sat and I looked at my notes I was like right I'm ready and I looked to my left and I saw his notebook I was like oh [ __ ] he's got everything that these Fighters have ever ever done and they and you know everything about them is in his notebook so I was like right just have it and and you know you may not need it but yeah you'd certainly sit down and do your preparation work before a show so you'll go through a Fighter's record you'll you you'll have the record you know who they've beaten who they've lost to you look for little things like you know maybe he's been caught in a guillotine three or four times you know maybe he's lost you know he's on a three-fight skid a three-fight winning streak whatever it is you have to it's interesting to have these you know they've both fought you know fighter a and fighter B have both fought against this guy they have a common opponent so you got to look for little things like that that might just be of some significance in a fight you know what I mean or this guy has never been past the first round or you know if if the fight goes the distance he generally he's good at eing out decisions but some sometimes you can get finished it's good to explain the story of the fight to the people that are watching I'm always conscious that at the level I commentate that a lot of people watching will be friends and family of the fighters yeah so you've got to strike the right balance you'll have teammates and friends who train with them for watching and you'll have friends and family who don't really know the sport at all you really have to to kind of strike the right balance of both of those you know you can't go too technical but at the same time you do need to explain to people well this is why he's getting caught with the jab you know this is this is what he's trying to set up here and it's a really cool moment when you're commentating and you explain to some to the viewer like he's trying to do this you know this is the danger here he's at risk of this and it actually happens then you know so that that that's always nice and uh rewarding when that happens but uh yeah it's just basically putting in the work com the sitting down and actually commentating on the fights is about 10% of the work you do for that show yeah there's there's quite a bit of preparation that goes in so um you know if if you ever try to hire me and you you give out to me for for for charging you too much it's not the [ __ ] 4 hours cage side you're paying me for it's the week before that you're paying me for so uh it's um yeah it's about staying up to date and uh day farell is a great guy like that as well yeah yeah he knows he just he spends so much of his time for you know just For the Love of the Game um providing a platform to the amateur fighters in the country and it's h it's really commendable you know absolutely abely um so you got to be able to so when you are commentating on a fight like you got to kind of have a balance you can't be too one-sided on one fighter you know versus another have you ever had like kind of any excuse me have you ever had any like kind of like criticism um you know about you know saying hey like you know you're you're you know focusing too much on this guy you know being too positive with this guy and you know you're not saying anything about you know this guy or you know what I mean like I've had a few I conversations with Fighters um I've been lucky in that no one's actually really had anything too negative to say uh I'm very looking that Fighters uh reach out to me and they they talk to me about their fights okay you know um I've had a couple of Fighters reach out to me about things I've said like constructive criticism on the on the commentary stream about their fight or their performance and they'll reach out to me and go you know yeah we're right there like that's uh I do need to do that or I do need to change this about my game so it's it's really yeah that that really made me kind of um or pleased me because it's it's nice that people aren't just getting [ __ ] offended they realize that you're I'm not there to to break anyone down or or to really B anyone up really uh but it's more about um just calling it as you see it sometimes you got friends in there it can be difficult to to to to kind of stay on the track down the middle but I do try my best to kind of do that you know um obviously if you got friends or teammates in there it's a real challenge but no I've been lucky and that the response that I've had from Fighters has been brilliant I've had some really interesting conversations with Fighters just about the Nuance of their performance and they'll they'll go yeah well you know they'll explain to me what was their thought process during the fight and we have a really good chat back and forward about it so and I learn a lot from things like that as well and then you know the next time they're fighting it's something that I can be aware of and and u i remember was Ross query had one fight and he was explaining to me it was in the Premier cage you know the big cage and he explaining it to me after the fight you know he was you were saying something like on the commentary stream that I was maybe hesitant to engage or you know I I I waited a little bit I think he lost the first two rounds and W the third or something like that and he was saying you know what you were right and here's why it was because the cage was so big that I always had space behind me so I was free to move around as much as I wanted and it kind of it gave me a comfort zone that I didn't have to you know bite down on the gum shield and and step in and really engage and until then I was two rounds down and I kind of had to so yeah it was in that was a really interesting one so I've had I've had Fighters like that reach out to me but as I said thankfully I haven't had anyone reach out to me and rip into me so so far so far be nice if you do if just give me a shout if you want to have a chat please don't uh please don't tear me a new one I'm doing me best yeah know uh you're doing a great job um you know it's got to be difficult too cuz you got to kind of like you said you know sometimes you're commentating on you know your team or friends and it's it's got to be difficult to maybe not difficult challenging to kind of to strike that uh you know U unbiased uh position you know behind the microphone especially if you're representing um you know like a brand like Brave or Kade Legacy or how do your E Yeah e yeah I can never say I can never say that right I'm pretty sure that's right I have to check with double check it with eight events with them I better make sure I'm saying it right um but yeah to you know to have that balance is uh it's just another skill you know and um think said I always enjoy watching you so sorry do you do you save like the whatever data that or uh that you collect yeah encyclopedia books of notes at home yeah yeah every show of commentated on I have uh I have a list of that you know this show this fight is on here's five bullet points point about fighter a five bullet points about fighter B and then when they're fighting on a show again like if they're fighting next week I'll go back and I look at the record and go okay they're on that show and I look to see what I already have you know he's really good switching stances you know he's got good inside low kicks and I'll just transfer that into the notes for the upcoming one and then add in whatever I can find from their most recent fights so I'll generally know a fighter then quite well or know what they're looking for a lot of the time once I've commentated on the on the handful of times so how how's your your kind of your recall are you oh [ __ ] yeah I need it written down in front of me Fighters will come up to me and they'll talk to me and I'll be like who is this guy comment like six of my fights and like I don't recognize you're wearing a t-shirt in this setting I just yeah and then you say my name and I go oh yeah you've got a really good job you know so it's weird like yeah my brain is weird like that I just yeah there's so many fights like but uh I definitely do need to have my notes in front of me just to um to remind me a lot of the time excellent um so there there's certainly there can be a lot of pressure on commentating especially if it's you know you say it's someone's debut or you know be it they're professional or even amateur or you know maybe it's a title fight or something like that um there's got to be a lot of pressure to you know present well for the or trying to say like you know to to give a good commentary and then um you even to present them in the cage um you know how how do you kind of manage the you know the pressure that you know you may or may not feel you know doing that yeah I I have to say I I generally don't feel like nerves or pressure in those situations I'm sort of so engrossed in the job or in the work that h i don't I yeah well been a performer you know for you know a long time you know you said you used to perform in Germany that's definitely got to help you know um you know stand in front of a cage or just even you know people listening to you um you know on the microphone on the live stream or something like that that that certainly got to help yeah so yeah so then okay yeah I feel at home in that situation and that environment and preparation is key once you're prepared you're good but like if you turn up unprepared that's when anxiety is going to be it's going to come back and bite you in the ass so you got to be ready you got to just have your D do uh due diligence done and uh make sure that you're you're you're you have everything lined up and good to go and you can just trust your trust your preparation same as comp competing yeah you know if you just make sure that you have everything prepared properly you're good what about and I know this H this probably doesn't happen on the larger cards or the you the bigger promotions but um last minute fight change you know yeah how do you what do you how do you do what do you do that yeah look if someone's get thrown into that cage and it's happened maybe at the very very last moment you weren't informed of it and you don't have any notes on the person at all it's not an issue you can just basically explain the situation and and then start explaining what you're seeing in front of you you you know you can the best thing is not to panic you know um it happens that way like sometimes you look oh this has been changed to a K1 Bo because this guy's Medicals didn't come in you know so a lot of the stuff from the MMA prep notes that you've got they they're probably not relevant so yeah you can just relax into it and and explain what you're seeing and and you know you're there with co- commentators as well usually some good good knowledgeable co- commentators you can absolutely just have good conversation with those people like we had some time to kill there on the last cage Legacy between I think it was the just before the co-main event and we we kind have did a 10 or 15 minute mini podcast between the three of us on the desk they stuck a camera on us and we just filled some air time because there was a lot of first round finishes on that main card so yes yeah like myselfself and Phil in particular have done so many shows we you know you could just sit us there and we could talk for an hour about about the card about the fights and you know um you know just it's just B staying calm and relaxed and Trust in your trust in your your preparations you know right on right on um is there a particular moment that you know for through all your commentating that kind of sticks out to you do you have like a like a favorite finish or just uh something that was you know oh there's been some cool ones one of the best fights was the Gary Rooney Jamie Abid Bisset won a couple years ago cage Legacy and Gary had Jamie in that Kimora and like I I actually lost the power to speak because like I was explaining earlier he's he's one of ours you know and and seeing his arm getting folded like that I thought it was about to snap and my yeah my brain just stopped working it just froze bit Phil had to carry me there for about 10 seconds but that was an insane fight just really good atmosphere and two really good guys you know they're both mates of mine so it was it was tough to watch but it was also such an amazing performance from both of them that it was a brilliant occasion um the TCO platter from Jake n a couple years ago that was that was awesome I just love seeing some different unique stuff in the cage and that was spectacular shout out to Caleb Lee who got one at the imfs there a couple of months ago as well so those commentators didn't know what that was the poor guy was so confused the commentator yeah it was like he was trying to swim and didn't know how to you know he just he was lost and he was like what was he calling it like like a reverse inverted kamor yeah he was just lost so that was that was a really really cool he describing what he saw you know and yeah God bless him but uh yeah it was H it was a magic moment and I said I was that one yeah the fact that it was like all over the internet then a couple of days later I turned on my Twitter was like oh like 400 notifications something something's going down but um it was fun yeah yeah I suppose there The Stand Out moments although there's been so many it' be difficult they could sit here making a list we might be here all night you know right all right uh last question here for you if uh if you could pick kind of your your dream fight to commentate on what would it be and then who would it be for so like what promotion would you be on suppose if we're going full Fantasy Island here we might go a UFC fight yeah um Charles Oliva okay and Max Holloway yeah yeah two of my favorite Fighters I would uh yeah I think that one would be bananas I think Max uh Max would win but yeah I don't know I don't know what it be my favorite fight to commentate on or would I not be able to watch it cuz think I I love watching both Fighters so it would be difficult to see one of them lose you know but who who would you want sitting next to you uh John anik yeah me and John anik that'll be class John anik's oh he's Head and Shoulders Above the Rest of the he's cool I like that guy always yeah he he's always got a good um what what I try um he's always got a good uh he steers the ship yeah like yeah like he's he's able to kind of come up with some like really good yeah um short descriptions that are like to the point he so slick yeah really really good uh Jesus Christ can you imagine sitting beside John anik doing commentary that would be so good he's uh yeah cuz some of the co- commentators they they stick him alongside are questionable at best you know and that's the thing with the fight game is they'll just throw a fighter there because of their name and their persona but they might not be any good at the the actual job but sometimes that doesn't matter you know and I won't name names on the UFC broadcast but there's quite a few there it's painful to listen to but um anik does such a good job of just sort of navigating the the madness he's uh he he sort of quarterbacks the whole uh the whole job you know he's he's brilliant like so he he does most if not all the shows doesn't he does yeah Brendan Fitzgerald does quite a few as well and he's you could see the drop off in quality is is poor I mean even outside the um outside the UFC there's some Sensational commentators Brad Horton cage Warriors play by play is I think just as good as anybody there is in the world he's he brilliant you know and if you talk to Brad he just knows the game inside out you ask him like a question about a pride card back you know 22 years ago and he he'll be able to give you some details on that recall yeah he's just unbelievable a top guy really good good guy and uh like he's he's on the cage Warriors broadcast there with Dan Strauss and reder and you know it's brilliant um and then like you know you've got Dan Hardy who's who's doing a lot of the pfl stuff Dan was Dan was one of the best ones in to him as well he's got he's got a good voice as well yeah like listening to him yeah and just a real brilliant deep rooted understanding of the sport like he learn so much just from listening to him speak it's just class you know um he's a Fountain of Knowledge yeah but an anic is sitting at the top of the pile there he's got he's he's just uh he navigates that chaos of uh you know some of the UFC pay-per-views with h DC and Rogan they can those guys can just get a little bit too wild and it's like they're it's like they're just sitting there in a bar watching the fights they just you know they go off on tangents a little bit but anik does a great job of kind of keeping the St the ship H steering straight and yeah I think he's brilliant but yeah you imagine sitting there kind of just watching a fight with um with with him and it was Charles Oliva and Max Holloway that would be just [ __ ] brilliant yeah awesome that that would be awesome that uh playing it in my head yeah that would that'd be that'd be pretty sweet um yeah look man I I appreciate your time um I love talking to you um and I love getting to know a bit more about you um that's it's always my that's my goal with this is to to get to know like to get to know the person you know the The Human Side of Combat Sports really you know I mean everyone wants to talk about you know Fighters you know their next big fight or you know training camp and all that but yeah like I'm most interested in like to The Human Side just what gets people think or what makes people want to do this get H the face on a regular basis you know that type of stuff and you know so like I said I I appreciate your time um you know it was it was awesome talking to you uh and you know maybe again hopefully soon we can do something else do something else together again let's do it okay man all right man appreciate it thank [Music] you yeah uh yeah uh yeah [Music]